tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post2625889492112097502..comments2024-03-05T11:44:26.154-08:00Comments on The New Theological Movement: Crying children call to mind the mystery of the MassFather Ryan Erlenbushhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comBlogger84125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-69639000727333834182016-04-17T20:23:32.506-07:002016-04-17T20:23:32.506-07:00I retract all that I have said about crying childr...I retract all that I have said about crying children in Mass, and repent in dust and ashes. Thank for this post, Father. You have brought repentance to a very self-righteous soul. <br /><br />Tom G.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11406809032127307531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-34867500980207261102013-12-31T18:36:06.863-08:002013-12-31T18:36:06.863-08:00Father, thank you so very much for publishing this...Father, thank you so very much for publishing this. So many moms and dads needed to hear it. Unfortunately, it seems their fellow pew-mates needed to be reminded of charity, also. <br />@Maria...your post about Hugh Gilbert, OSB,'s article made me laugh, actually. If you re-read it, you will notice that the good bishop never said a word about babies or crying. This is such a great example of taking something out of context and using it for something it wasn't intended for. He was referring to talking...which would include, I would imagine, those who gossip and complain about all of those horrible parents of today who can't control their children. By the way, in my humble opinion, I have always thought it was such a huge sacrifice for the entire family to "make a statement" and go to Mass together. It just shows how we each have our own opinions, right or wrong. Whenever fathers took half the kids and mothers took the other half...as a child I thought they took the easy way out. Of course, as an adult I don't judge...I'm just ecstatic that they are going to Mass!! <br />Again, thank you Father, you have made my day!!<br />--Terri H.<br />Mother of 3, Grandmother of 1<br />Retired Parochial School TeacherTerrihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14726450123358970925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-62562669155424882342013-11-30T14:35:06.022-08:002013-11-30T14:35:06.022-08:00I'm not a fan of kids crying/screaming during ...I'm not a fan of kids crying/screaming during Mass, and in fact, it can be physically painful for me. I was diagnosed as High-Functioning Autistic with sensory integration issues with my hearing: I literally can hear *everything* as my brain lacks the filters to tone out certain sounds, particularly loud, high-pitched ones (like small children crying/screaming). It makes it very hard for me to concentrate on the Mass and to pray, and there was one instance when a particularly loud kid right behind me nearly had me screaming myself because I'd been put into sensory overload. When that happens, it can be like I had a panic attack.<br /><br />That said... on my better days when I'm more at ease and my brain is calmer, I'd almost rather hear kids screaming than adults having unnecessary conversations before, during or after Mass. Kids screaming is usually just wordless yawping/shrieking (unless "eeeyyyyeeeeeeek!!" counts as a word??), but when actual words are being said and concepts are being shared, it's a real penance and not necessary: I have enough penance going about my regular duties in life without my brain glitching! Loud conversations after Mass, about worldly and/or sinful things are really unwanted. Case in point the older ladies sitting behind me who were talking about going home to read "50 Shades of Grey". And discussing it in approving tones! I wish I was making that one up! Creepy!<br /><br />--Jay HarknessAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-18042226755031707912013-09-04T06:10:46.947-07:002013-09-04T06:10:46.947-07:00If I knew Maria before I became a Catholic, I neve...If I knew Maria before I became a Catholic, I never would have converted! She lacks empathy and love, but even more, I would guess she doesn't befriend all the families in her parish or she would develop empathy for their situations. You forgive small transgressions of behavior easily when you love someone and I don't see that from her at all! My best friend led me to Catholicism-- she is raising five children (the oldest in college now) in the Traditional Latin Mass every Sunday and sometimes Daily Mass. We attend Mass with her when we're in town and while she is a strict parent with behavior and her children are wonderfully behaved, there is still the occasional noise-- we're human! We are both teachers by trade so in comparison to classrooms, the Mass is a very quiet place, even with the occasional outburst. Practice loving your neighbor and then this won't be an issue. If someone is being inconsiderate, it is better to lovingly ask if they could use some help or even to share that the toy they brought is a little noisy and offer maybe a soft (silent) one instead, which is easy when you've already introduced yourself and tried to become their friend. I find as a Catholic that people keep to themselves and don't try to reach out to their Church Family to know them. Bethany H.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-91925346775333728322013-08-09T10:04:54.759-07:002013-08-09T10:04:54.759-07:00I've never felt more unwelcome anywhere than a...I've never felt more unwelcome anywhere than at mass since becoming a parent. The priest and other parishioners are sweet to us, but there is the universal and reasonable expectation that when the children get very disruptive, they are to be taken out until they've calmed down again. Removal can be expected at any mass for any waking child under age two, according to my searches on the internet for tips from seasoned Catholic parents.<br /><br />In practice, that means that it is expected that we as parents will not be able to participate fully in the mass, because we WILL have to step out or be segregated to a cry room (if we had one). Even when I was a non-Catholic and just visiting for the first time with no idea what was going on, I felt more a part of the community and able to fully participate. My husband and I feel like outcasts because our daughter forces us to be cast out from the congregation, and we'll soon have two under age two -- and there's no telling how many babies to endure this with after that. It's breaking our hearts and doesn't feel "pro-life" at all that our special needs as parents of very young children are acknowledged but consciously ignored. It reminds me of James 2:16! Even a nursery staffed by volunteers offered only for children under age two (the age where they MUST be taken out) would make all the difference in the world to our growing family's ability to experience the mass and actually receive its graces.<br /><br />-KAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10360179862866351698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-6570260316853816052013-01-30T22:46:28.437-08:002013-01-30T22:46:28.437-08:00A well-written post. :) I've been blessed th...A well-written post. :) I've been blessed throughout my life, as both a Protestant and a Catholic, with church families who value children and understand that perfect silence and stillness from the small ones is often an impossible dream. Instead, they take the attitude that to hear the sound of children during church is to know the church has a future. Jesus Himself said, "Let the little children come unto Me, and forbid them not." Can you really see our Lord glaring at a parent as he/she struggles with an unruly toddler? I think He expects us to do our best to teach them, but He also expects us to bring them. If my children become too distracting, I remove them if possible, but there are a couple of problems with this: For one thing, I've had issues with children starting to view the nursery/cry room as a reward for poor behavior, thus encouraging the poor behavior. For another, I have four children and often have to take them to Mass alone. If I have to remove the two-year-old, is it really appropriate to leave the ten, seven, and five year old children in the pew by themselves? This seems like a recipe for disaster. And yet, if the whole family spends the whole of Mass (or most of it) either in a cry room or travelling back and forth between it and the sanctuary (which is disturbing in itself) one might quickly come to question the purpose in attempting Mass attendance in the first place. Cassi Mosherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07665015720293096093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-8308725799812040482013-01-17T12:59:45.789-08:002013-01-17T12:59:45.789-08:00Father! As a mother who experienced firsthand the...Father! As a mother who experienced firsthand the frustration some Mass-goers feel when faced with noisy children, I want to say thank you. This post feels like a life ring thrown out to the moms and dads treading water out in the vestibule. <br /><br />But in one of those mysterious ways we're always hearing about, my encounter with a Church Lady inspired me to start my own blog.<br /><br />My first post <a href="http://www.catholicallyear.com/2013/01/an-open-letter-to-church-lady-who.html" rel="nofollow">An Open Letter to the Church Lady Who Yelled at My Mom</a> solicited a real outpouring of support and commiseration.<br /><br />A friend pointed me towards your lovely post. All I can say is keep up the good work!<br /><br />Kendra Tierney<br />www.CatholicAllYear.comKendra Tierneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04212829372556908004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-44883161157259443152012-09-10T14:57:25.133-07:002012-09-10T14:57:25.133-07:00Thank you. I went to a retreat today on this very ...Thank you. I went to a retreat today on this very topic. It was full of mothers. The preist leading our discussion read us your post. Beautiful.the kringalingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03508151604842333722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-46719226654401651082012-08-11T07:06:38.478-07:002012-08-11T07:06:38.478-07:00Greetings all, If you are really attending for mas...Greetings all, If you are really attending for mass or prayer you should be able to block all noise from children out of your mind. Pay attention to the priest and mass. This is so easy to do if you are really dedicated. And for those who have children, do not remove them from the church. If any parishioner tells you anything tell them politely to mind their own business. It is not the parishioners place to tell you anything about your children. If they were really dedicated christians, they would not say anything!JimNYCnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-4749178519431436202012-06-07T14:32:02.675-07:002012-06-07T14:32:02.675-07:00Thank you, Father, for these insights. When we liv...Thank you, Father, for these insights. When we lived in Belgium for a few years, the priests and parishioners would beg us to sit in the front at Mass, since there were no children in the parish. It was refreshing coming back to the States to find crying babies at Mass! This is such a wonderful way for parents and congregation members to respond to children. If only everyone felt this way...<br />God bless you, and thank you again.Our Familyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02703005828897779835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-26081325964341474642012-04-16T13:27:28.895-07:002012-04-16T13:27:28.895-07:00I also wanted to say to Maria that our family is d...I also wanted to say to Maria that our family is devout. We homeschool our children in the faith and we discipline our children no matter where we are. We know the difference between a little cry of hunger or of being tired, or a cry of defiance and unruliness. I would also say that most of the parents in our parish know the differences in these cries, as well. Our parish acoustics are so bad that even when it is completely silent, sometimes we still can not hear our priest. Mass is a time of worship, whether you can hear every word, or hardly any words. Our children are being this too. <br /><br />Seanda B. in NCAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-60026444485582943282012-04-16T13:19:03.479-07:002012-04-16T13:19:03.479-07:00Thank you Father for this article. It means so muc...Thank you Father for this article. It means so much to me to read your views on children crying during Mass. My husband and I are new converts to the Church (as of Dec. 2011) and our family has 5 children. Our parish does have religious education classes during Sunday Mass, and so 2 of my sons go to their class. My oldest,12, the baby and our 2 year old stay in Mass with my husband and I. Our 2 year old is a feisty red head and my husband spends most of the Mass in the vestibule. I breastfeed our baby only and when she begins to get hungry she cries quite loudly. Thankfully, we have never had anyone speak badly of our family for our children's' behavior. Though, I do see quite a few dirty looks, and squirming adults, most people in our parish are sympathetic and for this I am very grateful.<br /><br />It is difficult attending daily Mass, and/or Sunday Mass with 5 children, sometimes without my husband, since we are a military family. I do find myself getting jumpy and nervous when our little ones begin to cry or act up. But, I remind myself that Jesus loves all of His children, young and old. He wants our children in Mass. When I have this outlook, I can take a deep breath and know that crying babies and toddlers are a blessing in life and in Mass. GRACE is good enough for my savior, so it is good enough for me and my children.<br /><br />Seanda B in NCAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-15230244236626795452012-04-12T08:09:29.303-07:002012-04-12T08:09:29.303-07:00courtesy ... especially to the least and smallest ...courtesy ... especially to the least and smallest in our midst.Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-29582343010490631282012-04-12T08:06:10.610-07:002012-04-12T08:06:10.610-07:00The grace of God is courtesy.
Hilaire BellocThe grace of God is courtesy. <br />Hilaire BellocMariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02704944620839677383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-1771928076021141132012-04-11T18:42:05.884-07:002012-04-11T18:42:05.884-07:00@Maria,
For over 1,000 years, the whole Eucharisti...@Maria,<br />For over 1,000 years, the whole Eucharistic prayer was said in a whisper by the priest -- so that the people could not hear.<br />Also, in many places, for over 500 years, priests did not give homilies ... so the people didn't hear these either.<br /><br />Do you think that all these Catholics and Saints throughout huge portions of the history of the Church really were not able to pray or worship at Mass ... simply because they did not hear the priest (or because he spoke in a language they didn't understand, like Latin)?<br /><br />Well, whatever, your sarcasm tires me so ... but I do hope you pray well with the Dominicans, I have also enjoyed attending Mass with religious. +Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-31332685536848066772012-04-11T16:36:11.937-07:002012-04-11T16:36:11.937-07:00Maria- it comes off as very cruel to suggest paren...Maria- it comes off as very cruel to suggest parents go to different masses or that mass is just "one more thing to do" for families with children. People who feel that way....generally don't come to mass! This is a very important time in my family's week and it is very important even for my young children to learn about the mass and hopefully receive some sort of grace. <br /><br />Even without children I find it hard to believe that mass would be perfectly "quiet" without us there. Having just left the cold and flu season with a third of the parish sick at anytime hacking and clearing their nasal passages I hardly expect to find complete quiet at mass. It is my responsibility to focus on prayer to the best of my ability despite the numerous distractions inherent in a large gathering of people.<br /><br />Do we strive for quiet? Of course, but it is simply unacceptable to forbid young children from mass because they might make a squeak or two. Nearly every parent I have ever seen is careful to remove young children if they become disruptive, so I have a hard time imagining even what sort of crazy ruckus you are hearing. I can only recall one very loud, ongoing incidence since I became a Catholic 8 years ago. <br /><br />Anyway I don't see Father as suggesting that we all be distracted and give the focus to the young children. In fact, he gave us a way to refocus those distractions onto prayer. <br /><br />Anyway I hope this perspective from a mom of two young kids and one on the way is helpful in understanding where parents might be coming from. <br /><br />-NFPusingmomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-61415101864887027532012-04-11T14:17:58.162-07:002012-04-11T14:17:58.162-07:00I'm 56 years old, and I've gone to Mass pr...I'm 56 years old, and I've gone to Mass pretty much all my life. I can't remember a single time when a child has even come close to making it "impossible" for me to pray and worship.codumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12451222687723847058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-47106919909479664252012-04-11T07:21:37.010-07:002012-04-11T07:21:37.010-07:00Father, you stated "Finally, and I hope this ...Father, you stated "Finally, and I hope this isn't too harsh, I would point out the irony in your last comment --you judge all these parents for "wishing not to be inconvenienced" ... but are you not the one who can't bear with the rather small "inconvenience" of having children at Church?Who is really the self-centered one in all this?"<br /><br />With due deference, I think my point is being lost. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is supposed to have at its focus our Lord, not those in attendance, be they three months or ninety years old. If I can't hear the Mass, I would venture to say that this is more than "mere inconvenience", as you suggest Pastors have an obligation to God and the souls of the faithful, to make worship possible for all. As for your suggestion that I am self-centered, I get up, daily, at 5AM to attend a 7AM Mass w/ the Dominicans, so that others will not be robbed of their perfect right to make it impossible for others to pray and worship their God.Mariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02704944620839677383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-6812296903825012272012-04-10T16:18:36.223-07:002012-04-10T16:18:36.223-07:00When we first started assisting at daily Mass regu...When we first started assisting at daily Mass regularly, where there aren't many children, I got a few nasty comments from a man who said my wife and I should take turns going to Mass because some of our six our children were too young to be there. He too questioned whether children under a certain age should be at Mass at all. He believed I should go to the 6:30a Mass, and she to the 8:30a. I demured and we tried our best to keep the kids quiet. Now, except for the 2 1/2 year old, they do very well.<br /><br />The sad coda to the story is that the man who complained the most has 2 kids, neither of whom are in the Church.Tantumblogohttp://veneremurcernui.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-79919336521408035412012-04-10T15:02:47.594-07:002012-04-10T15:02:47.594-07:00@Maria,
You are correct that I am too young to kno...@Maria,<br />You are correct that I am too young to know of the old days.<br />Still, I am old enough to know that infants do not change much between times and cultures...they all make noise.<br /><br />Finally, and I hope this isn't too harsh, I would point out the irony in your last comment -- you judge all these parents for "wishing not to be inconvenienced" ... but are you not the one who can't bear with the rather small "inconvenience" of having children at Church?<br />Who is really the self-centered one in all this?<br /><br />In any case, we may as well make the best of it ... let the cries of the little ones remind us of the passion and then the "two people" will not have stopped the forty from praying, but will have actually helped us! +Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-11182531822536210672012-04-10T11:43:12.640-07:002012-04-10T11:43:12.640-07:00Anonymous: You said: "Most parents seem to kn...Anonymous: You said: "Most parents seem to know when baby squeals are acceptable, and when loud howls necessitate a stroll into the vestibule or beyond." I would have to disagree with you. Our culture of narcissism has so enveloped us, that parents, probably through no fault of their own, are wholly unaware that an infant and unmannered children make it impossible for people to assist at Mass. Without silence there can be no true worship. Without silence there can be no reverence. We are there to worship God, not accomodate those who wish not to be inconvenienced.<br /><br />There are few parents at home actually raising children. So, Mass is just "one more thing to do", for many, though certainly not all. As such, having worked all week, neither parent wants to be inconvenienced. Two Masses? Go alone? All that time and sacrifice? Forget about it. So, a wish to be freed from inconvenience then transmogfrifies into a righteous defense of their self-indulgent behavior, replete with theological and biblical interpretation, viz. "suffer the little children" et cetera. Sometimes, charity demands hard sayings. The article I referenced above by Gilbert quotes a wise old priest who described the problem thusly : "two people stop forty people praying." <br />This should tell us all we need to know about this subject.<br /><br />Theomom: We are all practicing Catholics, one of whom is discerning religious life. My father's greatest witness to the faith was his sacrificial love for us and seeing him on his knees in prayer, every night. When I came home, late, from an evening out, I often found him saying his rosary. He often wore his rosaries out in prayer. None of this happenened at a traditional Latin Mass ;)Mariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02704944620839677383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-81812805098977254302012-04-08T12:46:41.657-07:002012-04-08T12:46:41.657-07:00On Thursday my Godson of 7 months joined the choir...On Thursday my Godson of 7 months joined the choir in singing, on Friday he mourned throughout the Lord's Passion & on Saturday night he joined the heavenly choir in worshiping the risen Lord.<br /><br />AdrianAdrianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10938352019699462646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-91318313914675608912012-04-08T06:23:48.430-07:002012-04-08T06:23:48.430-07:00I nodded in agreement all the way through Father&#...I nodded in agreement all the way through Father's post, but this morning's Mass did slightly change my view. There were four of us in our very small choir (for the Latin Mass - ordinary form), and just before the blessing with holy water, when we were about to launch into the Vidi Aquam (beautiful but tricky), a child somewhere in the congregation decided to provide us with an accompaniment in the form of some toy which made a very loud creaking noise, a bit like a football (soccer) rattle. We can cope with crying, but that was a bit much, and I'm afraid we were all anathematising the parents who'd given the kid that particular toy in Mass.<br /><br />SueSue Simshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15868265477624790008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-69934818726352875932012-04-07T01:46:16.288-07:002012-04-07T01:46:16.288-07:00Thank you, Father, for your kind words. We attend ...Thank you, Father, for your kind words. We attend a Traditional Latin Mass and after Mass we often express our joy at the ever-increasing number of young ones in the congregation. Most parents seem to know when baby squeals are acceptable, and when loud howls necessitate a stroll into the vestibule or beyond. <br /><br />GloriaDeiAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-35021826829039748162012-04-05T19:53:58.765-07:002012-04-05T19:53:58.765-07:00@Maria 8:53 PM
I'm curious whether or not all...@Maria 8:53 PM<br /><br />I'm curious whether or not all of your siblings are still practicing Catholics -- not for judgmental reasons -- I am genuinely curious. I take may three children (all 2 and under) to Sunday Mass with my husband most of the time. But lately, it has become such a circus that more and more we are going to Mass separately. I find the reactions of others to my hopelessly noisy boys to be stressful -- I take them out to the vestibule as soon as they act up, but then I am embarrassed to keep walking back and forth, in and out of mass. <br /><br />I think it was Yves Congar who said that the way children learn their faith is through Mass, prayer and holy objects (sacramentals) first, rather than explicit teaching. So I worry that my children will miss out on their early formation if I don't take them to Mass.Theomamanoreply@blogger.com