tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post3877236150335369718..comments2024-03-05T11:44:26.154-08:00Comments on The New Theological Movement: Is confession a time for spiritual direction? An answer from St. AlphonsusFather Ryan Erlenbushhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-46372222238892967172011-08-13T10:22:36.859-07:002011-08-13T10:22:36.859-07:00Chatto,
I'm gonna copy your question and my r...Chatto, <br />I'm gonna copy your question and my response over to the "Ask Father Ryan" page.<br /><br />If the priest says only, "I absolve you from your sins", the essential words have been preserved. Still, it is really bad that he would not say the whole thing ... you might consider bringing a printout copy of the prayer and asking him to read it ... then tell him that he can keep it if he likes ... [just be sure that you don't come off as prideful or demeaning toward him].<br /><br />[here is the prayer: "God, the Father of mercies, through the death and resurrection of his Son has reconciled the world to himself and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins; through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace, and I ABSOLVE YOU FROM YOUR SINS in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen."]<br /><br />Peace to you! +Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-64651968149660918202011-08-13T04:33:44.396-07:002011-08-13T04:33:44.396-07:00Father, this is slightly off topic, so apologies. ...Father, this is slightly off topic, so apologies. How important is the "God, the Father of mercies..." part of the absolution? Our priest just starts with "I absolve you...". And he never gives penances, either. Do I need to go to someone else for Confession?Chattohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14488939389859451887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-51662209216995371132011-08-05T05:35:07.004-07:002011-08-05T05:35:07.004-07:00I think in the crashing airplane scenario the prie...I think in the crashing airplane scenario the priest could definitely give general absolution.dcshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18424510747759223459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-25331182083865191212011-08-04T21:34:37.347-07:002011-08-04T21:34:37.347-07:00Fr. Jone would even say (if I remember correctly) ...Fr. Jone would even say (if I remember correctly) that the whole issue of integrity could be dispensed with if the confession would go on so long as to possibly cause scandal. <br /><br />Even so, even with a "big fish" confession, one (it would seem) couldn't make an "integral" confession in the sense of being really detailed. It would seem that it would be more like, "I did X more times than I can remember..." for, probably, many things and that would be an honest, and therefore integral confession. Thus, it shouldn't really take that long. <br /><br />The only times I've been perturbed in the confession line (yeah, mea culpa...) was when women are in there, and no offense to women as I would bet some men are like this too. However, when you can hear (which I know is also bound, and I wouldn't repeat) and they are obviously chatting or she's going on and on about this or that powder-puff pious thing, one (I thing) is entitled to a little pious annoyance. If confessions are only offered for 1/2 hour (or however long), I don't want to be delayed by someone's whine-fest. If you feel a need to pour your heart out to Father about whatever, please make an appointment! When one comes to a scheduled confession time, you need to get to the point and move along so that the next person can get to their point. <br /><br />-dominic1962Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-33437212545339209182011-08-03T15:52:23.353-07:002011-08-03T15:52:23.353-07:00Thank you for this!Thank you for this!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10845051786114528609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-20897537943092109552011-08-03T12:00:11.659-07:002011-08-03T12:00:11.659-07:00I have more thoughts, but let me say this before I...I have more thoughts, but let me say this before I forget: <br /><br />As a recidivist myself, I tend to think my objections might be moot or potentially hypocritical. But I think everyone else (whom I must presume is in a better state than me) has reason to be upset when the person in front of them takes 15 minutes to confess. Here's why: <br /><br />I tend to think St. Alphonsus was not speaking of the proverbial crashing airplane hypothetical when he says a priest is only held to account for those confessions he does hear, and not those which he does not hear. I tend to think the priest would have to answer for only absolving one person on the way down. No? I know the communal confession model is disfavored, but...Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17284494094279099703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-89944100731143952262011-08-03T08:27:39.552-07:002011-08-03T08:27:39.552-07:00Tom G.,
Peace and blessings to you!
I think you a...Tom G.,<br />Peace and blessings to you!<br /><br />I think you are correct that something is not working right when a weekly confession consistently takes 30 min ... obviously, charity and patience are needed; but it does seem that there is something a bit off with that situation.<br />Take a look at my UPDATE, I think you will agree. And it may show that we are both in that "middle ground".Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-8335140427412587162011-08-03T08:19:51.627-07:002011-08-03T08:19:51.627-07:00I have just posted a little UPDATE to the article,...I have just posted a little UPDATE to the article, which should clarify a few points.<br /><br />What I am advocating is that direction would be appropriate almost exclusively in those circumstances enumerated above ... and even then the "direction" would be limited to the specific need [e.g. asking questions of the penitent so as to gain the integrity of the confession, giving the penitent one or two points to meditate on over the next week, etc]. <br /><br />Certainly, confession is not a time for "conversation"! <br />This is what has made the sacrament so odious and has caused many people to become frustrated with any level of direction in the confessional (even when it is done appropriately).<br /><br />Finally, I should also warn that it would be better to have no direction at all than to have bad direction ... when there are so many priests who give poor advice (either through heterodox thought, or through inexperience and lack of knowledge of the spiritual life), we must say that it would be better for both penitent and priest if these fools (i.e. the bad confessors) would not speak at all!Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-47653308991816314512011-08-03T00:12:15.721-07:002011-08-03T00:12:15.721-07:00May I strongly suggest that you submit this articl...May I strongly suggest that you submit this article to Homiletic and Pastoral Review (and any and all other priestly publications out there I may not know of)?<br /><br />Well said.Gregnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-82316611599733538142011-08-02T20:16:55.094-07:002011-08-02T20:16:55.094-07:00Father Erlenbush,
This was a very helpful post. I...Father Erlenbush,<br /><br />This was a very helpful post. I've always viewed the line for confession to be very similar to that part of the story in The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe, where Lucy has the magic potion that heals those who are about to perish. She "dawdles" or "hesitates" over Edmund, and Aslan reproaches her for delaying while others are on the brink of death. However, your post has given me much food for thought. I think there is a middle ground (and I think I can still reserve the right to be upset when one person (whom I see in line for Confession on a bi-weekly basis) taking up 30 minutes for confession), but I think St. Alphonsus has corrected me. You remain in my prayers.<br /><br />Tom GehrzTomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17284494094279099703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-2087258936437301942011-08-02T18:56:41.284-07:002011-08-02T18:56:41.284-07:00The congregation for the clergy has just released ...The congregation for the clergy has just released a document that affirms much of what is said here and more. It can be found by following this link:<br /><br />http://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/?p=5821D.A. Burkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05051227439864739763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-1615581494435380742011-08-02T17:53:34.927-07:002011-08-02T17:53:34.927-07:00Anonymous (4:46pm),
1st - give a pseudonym with yo...Anonymous (4:46pm),<br />1st - give a pseudonym with your comment.<br /><br />2nd - To say that "a priest hearing a good confession does not have to give advice" is to contradict both St. Alphonsus and the current directions given in the Introduction to the Rite of Penance (which was promulgated by Pope Paul VI).<br />It would be a very rare exception that a priest would not offer some bit of counsel to the penitent ... to help him overcome his sin and to grow in holiness.<br /><br />The primary goal of confession is to bring the person into union with God ... and this can only be accomplished by attaining to the Unitive Way of the perfect (either now or in purgatory). <br />After gaining freedom from mortal sins and from deliberate venial sins, we must strive in earnest to attain to the inner-life of infused contemplation.<br /><br />St. Alphonsus (the patron of confessors) exhorts priests to not settle simply for rooting out sin (it would be the vice of tepidity).<br /><br />-- perhaps it is the nonsense that many priests have been saying in confession over recent years that has made the sacrament odious ... indeed, when confessors don't understand the spiritual life, they cause grave harm to souls --Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-16255975038712569252011-08-02T17:42:29.362-07:002011-08-02T17:42:29.362-07:00@Anonymous (3:50pm),
I would challenge you to expa...@Anonymous (3:50pm),<br />I would challenge you to expand your charity a bit ... is not confession specifically for the "big fish"? Shall we push the big confessions all to the side ... forcing them to take the additional step of setting an appointment.<br /><br />This is the point: The angels rejoice more in heaven over one repentant sinner.<br /><br /><br />What I would say: It is better to encourage priests to give more time to hearing confessions than to set up more barriers for the "big fish" confessions.Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-3337044431371433162011-08-02T16:51:23.671-07:002011-08-02T16:51:23.671-07:00Hi Father Erlenbush,
Excellent post! I hope the ...Hi Father Erlenbush,<br /><br />Excellent post! I hope the Pope doesn't make you a bishop any time soon such that you don't have time to devote to your blog! Selfish, I know, and I'm guilty!!! Anyway, I'm one of those hopefully repentant recidivists who gets the response from the confessor, "everybody does it!" You know that doesn't help, and I wish I was scrupulous, but I'm not, these are NEW sins... (not to be flip about it...) So we the laity lovingly bear the burden of wonderful, dear priests who weren't taught very well about this subject. And so, I just want you to know how good it is to have you tell us that the young priests are being taught the tried and true methodology of how to be a good confessor! And to give us good sources. Glory be to God!Michelangelonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-42879285103888867962011-08-02T16:46:49.536-07:002011-08-02T16:46:49.536-07:00Fr. Gerard Kelly SJ wrote a wonderful book called ...Fr. Gerard Kelly SJ wrote a wonderful book called "The Good Confessor."<br /><br />I think the post-Vatican II spirit tries to justify confession as spiritual direction because it doesn't like the Church's teaching on sin or sacerdotal absolution. Spiritual direction is part of confession -but perhaps primarily with reference to avoiding sin. I think prescribing a penance itself is an aspoect of this spiritual direction. <br />A priest hearing a good confession does not have to give advice. I think many priests always think they have to say something beyond the absolution and penance.<br /><br />I think it's true that penitent immediately before his is his main duty, but the priest must also be prudent and not become loquacious. He must be like a ER doctor swiftly helping the penitent expose his sins and so that he cn apply the healing absolution (and questioning or advice only if necessary). Otherwise he makes the sacrament odious.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-8298823897827290352011-08-02T15:50:03.724-07:002011-08-02T15:50:03.724-07:00If you "haven't been to confession in 30 ...If you "haven't been to confession in 30 years." or something, you really should schedule a time for your long-winded confession!<br /><br />Since most priests are barely there 1 hour/week in most parishes, it's extremely inconsiderate and selfish to hog all the time, no doubt debating and defending your actions. <br /><br />No routine confession should take more than 5 minutes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-16894851824280540942011-08-02T14:49:20.002-07:002011-08-02T14:49:20.002-07:00I have lived in Parishes where one must call the P...I have lived in Parishes where one must call the Priest and make an appointment for Confession.<br /><br />This happens all the time all over the United States.<br /><br />Apparently, we Christian Catholics stopped sinning in 1965Mick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-65634535314682316392011-08-02T13:11:00.415-07:002011-08-02T13:11:00.415-07:00Fr. Erlenbush -
Is there a book you can recommen...Fr. Erlenbush - <br /><br />Is there a book you can recommend to get started with St. Alphonse Ligouri? I've delved into some Saints in some depth - Teresa of Avila, Therese of Lisieux, and Catehrine of Siena, but haven't gotten into St. Alphonse much. I generally the Saints own words, rather than books written about the Saint.<br /><br />BTW, did you know Jason Cargo (now Fr. Jason Cargo) at Rome? Or Fr. James Yamauchi? I don't know how large the Pontifical College for North America is, but both are Dallas Diocesan priests who recently were ordained after matriculating in Rome.Larryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06922875518815391146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-49394239480287460422011-08-02T09:32:59.499-07:002011-08-02T09:32:59.499-07:00I've been praying to St. Leopold Mendic to fin...I've been praying to St. Leopold Mendic to find me a good confessor and director. The two priests in my parish are good priests but I had a really traumatic experience with one before Mercy Sunday in the confessional and the other one leaves me tongue-tied. Am not comfortable with either.<br /><br />I was used to going to confession once a week. In our parish, if you don't make an appointment, the only times scheduled for confession are inconvenient late afternoon times. I wish they would make it more available in the morning without having to make an appointment.<br /><br />VeronicaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-51917912261650642912011-08-02T09:06:08.802-07:002011-08-02T09:06:08.802-07:00here, we do note that the priest must be extremely...<i>here, we do note that the priest must be extremely cautious when questioning women regarding sins against chastity</i><br /><br />It might be good to point out the same advice would hold for questioning children - Fr. Jone warns the confessor about teaching children sins by asking them pointed questions in confession.dcshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18424510747759223459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-65801558834775642732011-08-02T07:15:04.507-07:002011-08-02T07:15:04.507-07:00Taylor,
All good points.
I will say this: I cannot...Taylor,<br />All good points.<br />I will say this: I cannot see how a priest with a true zeal for the salvation of souls would only offer confessions for one hour per week ... especially, if that hour is full and there are people waiting.<br /><br />Certainly, if a confession goes unheard because the priest refuses to be available (within reason) to hear confessions, that priest will have to answer for such negligence.<br /><br /><br />BTW, it sounds like you have some awesome priests at your parish! I myself have also had very good experiences with priests of the FSSP during my seminary days.<br /><br />Peace and blessings, and keep up the good work over at Canterbury Tales! +Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-22953280026080221262011-08-02T07:03:12.943-07:002011-08-02T07:03:12.943-07:00Reverend Father,
I agree, of course, with Father ...Reverend Father,<br /><br />I agree, of course, with Father Alphonsus. If confessions were offered more frequently, then I can see "direction in confession" becoming more normative.<br /><br />This entails a sacrifice for the priest a la "a priest is not his own." The priest, in order to fulfill this task will have to spend more time in the confessional.<br /><br />Now that I'm at an FSSP parish, there is confession offered everyday and for over ten hours on Sunday. I often receive jewels of advice and even questioning from the priests. The priests also say things like, "Why don't you make an appointment and we can discuss mental prayer, penances, etc."<br /><br />However, at other parishes, confession is only offered on Friday night or Saturday afternoon. Prior to being at the FSSP parish, I've (regrettably) become frustrated because there will be 30 penitents in line and someone is in the confessional for 15-20 minutes! Then the priest comes out and says, "Sorry folks, that's all for tonight."<br /><br />(BTW, would St Alphonsus say that priests are culpable for "confessions not heard" in such cases? As a practicing layman I have often thought to myself: "What's the point. I wait in line for an hour and don't get to go to confession. Why even try?"<br /><br />Surely, I'm not the only one who has thought this. I imagine working Catholic men just give up. It's not right and not a sign of perseverance, but I can see the temptation.)<br /><br />Of course, when confession is offered frequently, this isn't a temptation for the layman (especially the working husband/father who may have difficulties meeting the limited posted times).<br /><br />Would you agree that St Alphonsus' and Fr Garrigou's advice assumes that parish confessions are offered more than "one hour" on Saturday?<br /><br />ad Jesum per Mariam,<br />TaylorAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14702278020570844195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-53901132926641874672011-08-02T06:45:23.934-07:002011-08-02T06:45:23.934-07:00I just reposted this on Facebook.
Godspeed,
Taylo...I just reposted this on Facebook.<br /><br />Godspeed,<br />Taylor<br /><br />PS: Your posts, Father, have been wonderful lately!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14702278020570844195noreply@blogger.com