tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post4077072007383948719..comments2024-03-05T11:44:26.154-08:00Comments on The New Theological Movement: Did Christ hunger and thirst as God, or only as Man?, On the Gospel for the 3rd Sunday of LentFather Ryan Erlenbushhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-57124203676950024052011-03-28T09:11:41.843-07:002011-03-28T09:11:41.843-07:00@John W Carlson,
Indeed, there is much more that c...@John W Carlson,<br />Indeed, there is much more that could be said about language and the Thomistic position...<br /><br />For one thing, St. Thomas includes metaphor under the literal sense of Scripture...<br />For another, we are already speaking analogously and metaphorically when we speak of the human "thirst" for God...thus, any talk of a divine thirst is a analogy from a metaphor...<br /><br />In our day, as you rightly mentioned, there is grave danger for theology...since many people seem to think that theology is merely a type of poetry...hence, certain schools (most notably of the Nouvelle) are able to say really crazy things... How many times Balthasarians have complained against my critiques, saying "It's poetry..."<br /><br />Peace. +Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-19102314556920866632011-03-28T09:00:04.069-07:002011-03-28T09:00:04.069-07:00@Tribes Superbia,
I suppose that, when we speak of...@Tribes Superbia,<br />I suppose that, when we speak of "thirst for souls", we are already very clearly in metaphor and analogy...."spiritual thirst" is already metaphor.<br /><br />Yet, even more so when we speak of a divine thirst -- since, thirst is for something outside of oneself, but God is fulfilled entirely in himself; and all things exist in God (by participation in him).<br /><br />Still, in a homily, I don't think that the same precision is necessary as in a journal article or a book...<br /><br />so...I myself don't have any real problem with that line... given that the homilist doesn't present it as a strictly literal fact... <br />[after all...St. Therese used to speak this way...]<br /><br />Peace. +Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-41165383275285415042011-03-27T20:07:27.197-07:002011-03-27T20:07:27.197-07:00This is an admirable piece, one that elaborates a ...This is an admirable piece, one that elaborates a point made by my pastor this morning: Christ thirsts for our salvation, just as He thirsted for the salvation of the Samaritan woman.<br /><br />As a professor of philosophy, however, I offer one small caveat about language. Reginald rightly notes that when we speak about God, "we leave behind all univocity." But he goes on to equate the "univocal" with the "literal" and to suggest that "analogical" can be understood as "according to a figurative metaphor."<br /><br />Now, some Thomists speak of metaphor as a type of ("improper") analogy. But in a case of proper analogy the relations among the meanings of a term are grounded in relations in reality, rather than in the imagination of the writer.<br /><br />This distinction sheds light on a difference between two of Reginald's subsequent examples. When we speak of God's "love" for mankind, we have in mind a real relation(called "proportionality") between the divine and the human case; and thus we have genuine analogy. But when we speak of the divine "thirst," the term is used metaphorically--for, as the author earlier noted, "God cannot suffer from any physical or spiritual pains."<br /><br />I believe this point is important, especially in an age in which many theologians regard all language about God as "symbolic" (or ("metaphorical"). Philosophy in the perennial tradition of St. Thomas Aquinas continues to offer theologians a principled way toward a more robust analysis.<br /><br />John W. CarlsonJohn W Carlsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15812663047985491012noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-22052303309049421772011-03-27T19:31:08.199-07:002011-03-27T19:31:08.199-07:00When preaching, do you (or ought the homilist) be ...When preaching, do you (or ought the homilist) be careful to point out the the divine thirst is only thirst by analogy?<br />Or to the point, would you raise any flag at a statement such as: <br /><i>"God thirsts for souls! Let us seek to satiate His thirst for our souls by in turn acknowledging our need for His life and love and asking Him for His living water in our lives."</i>Tribes Superbianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-91054720838349529102011-03-27T13:25:19.514-07:002011-03-27T13:25:19.514-07:00@Anonymous (8:41 and 8:49),
I simply cannot unders...@Anonymous (8:41 and 8:49),<br />I simply cannot understand the point you are trying to make...your English is unintelligible. <br />If it would help to write in your own language (if it is other than English), please do... I can read Italian and Spanish well. French, so so. For other languages, I can use an online translator.<br /><br />In any case...we need to be careful about jumping too quickly from Christ's actions in his humanity to speculations about his divinity. <br />For example, Christ slept, but there is no sense in which we may say that God has a divine sleep ("he neither sleeps nor slumbers Israel's guard")...<br />Also, Christ died...but there is no death of divinity.<br /><br />Even in the case of thirst...it is only in a very analogous sense that we venture to speak of a divine thirst...<br /><br />Pax. +Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-43070985100944746962011-03-27T12:49:07.711-07:002011-03-27T12:49:07.711-07:00Good correction :)Good correction :)Nickhttp://blogsofasoul.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-37591419853406636002011-03-27T11:49:20.130-07:002011-03-27T11:49:20.130-07:00Christ hunger and thirst : according to Saint Maxi...Christ hunger and thirst : according to Saint Maximus ( in EP.I . Dionysii) three distant kinds of activity can be distinguished in Christ ( the divine or purely divine activities, the human activities ,the mixed activities) for this posting ,the focus is on the human activities of Christ. The God - human ( Theandric activities) f fundamentals catholic dogma ( page 149) .recommendation for reflection catechism # 1809 and # 2341 ( 6 commandment ) the virtue of chastity cones under the cardinal virtue of temperance which seeks to permeate the passions and appetites of the senses with reason. <br />Peace to all, thanks GuerlineAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-45230293929979122352011-03-27T11:41:38.695-07:002011-03-27T11:41:38.695-07:00christ hunger and thirst revealed the designation ...christ hunger and thirst revealed the designation God- human act ( Theandric)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-50385034615504996282011-03-26T22:36:29.028-07:002011-03-26T22:36:29.028-07:00@Nick,
I would say "as a lover HIS beloved&qu...@Nick,<br />I would say "as a lover HIS beloved"...traditionally (and biblically) the soul is represented as feminine and God is represented as masculine. The "lover" is masculine, the "beloved" is feminine.Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-58676298962479046292011-03-26T20:22:31.514-07:002011-03-26T20:22:31.514-07:00God hungers for souls as a lover her beloved.God hungers for souls as a lover her beloved.Nickhttp://blogsofasoul.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.com