tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post6669752749914955369..comments2024-03-05T11:44:26.154-08:00Comments on The New Theological Movement: Is every act in mortal sin another sin? Or, Why I hate Les MiserablesFather Ryan Erlenbushhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-87172558027453087902013-03-31T21:54:39.987-07:002013-03-31T21:54:39.987-07:00Father,
I think you've missed the point of the...Father,<br />I think you've missed the point of the scene with the bishop and the revolutionary. I don't think the revolutionary himself had "slaughtered priests and raped nuns." In fact, he openly acknowledged that a lot of evil had come out of the French Revolution. But he argued that it was ultimately still a good thing because it began a movement that led people out of oppression and desperate poverty. It's an important distinction to make: he defended the Revolution in spite of this evil, not because of it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-88712667051362943122013-03-21T22:45:18.258-07:002013-03-21T22:45:18.258-07:00'I wonder whether the supernatural world-view ...'I wonder whether the supernatural world-view of the Faith is presented .... or is it more "sentimentality" about forgiveness and charity?'<br /><br />In my opinion, both elements are present to some degree in the movie. There is a tendency among many Catholics and Christians to eagerly embrace any product of popular culture which can arguably be said to favor Christian ideas or Christian morality, even though these things are to some extent mixed with ideas which are not so Christian. One may at least praise this impulse to the extent that it wants to view the glass of a particular offering of popular culture as 'half full.'<br /><br />As to the book, which I have not read, it is my understanding that Hugo was criticized by some in his day because his portrayal of the Bishop was far too favorable and that his portrayal therefore increased respect for the Church.<br /><br />Les Miserables may rightly be viewed as a far from perfect piece of art from the viewpoint of the Church but to make the Bishop out to be possibly the most despicable character in all literature seems to me to be something of an overstatement, given that Hugo's portrayal of the Bishop was considered by his friends to be unconscionably and almost mendaciously favorable.<br /><br />As for the movie, which I have seen, my take was that the bishop was an inspiring figure that acted in the Name of, and for the purpose of furthering the kingdom of, Jesus Christ. Jean Valjean clearly felt this and subsequently had a conversion of heart. Now, it is true however, that the movie did not show Valjean taking any of the sacraments.<br /><br />YanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-69473570369299939692013-03-10T12:33:35.381-07:002013-03-10T12:33:35.381-07:00@Mary Ann,
"Without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to...@Mary Ann,<br />"Without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God." (Hebrews 11:6)<br /><br />The pagans must have at least an implicit faith in order to be saved, or for their actions to be of any value before God.Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-3422831613654269822013-03-10T09:38:30.607-07:002013-03-10T09:38:30.607-07:00When the pagans come to judgment, Christ tells the...When the pagans come to judgment, Christ tells them that whatever they did to the least of his brothers, they did to him.Mary Ann Parkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15723937182830302303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-49840438554947040272013-02-18T07:57:10.955-08:002013-02-18T07:57:10.955-08:00Father,
Are Jews and Muslims considered "...Father,<br /><br /> Are Jews and Muslims considered "unbelievers?" If so, is it sinful for a Jew or Muslim to do anything based specifically upon their faith, even if it is not opposed to the Catholic/Christian faith (e.g., feed the hungry, care for the sick, pray for peace, etc)?<br /><br />Thankswprnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-17186667404604275602013-02-18T02:22:09.307-08:002013-02-18T02:22:09.307-08:00I've never read a book but I know that Hugo wa...I've never read a book but I know that Hugo wasn't very pious, to put it mildly. <br />But last week I've seen the 2012 film and I can't remember recent Hollywood product with such a beautiful portrait of the Church. <br />Pls read:<br />http://www.patheos.com/blogs/philosophicalfragments/2012/12/29/the-theology-of-les-miserables/<br />Like T.Dalrymple, I cannot think of any work of fiction that conveys the contrast between Law and Grace as vividly and profoundly as Les Mis.<br /><br />Btw. I remember an extraordinary "Of Gods and Men", but it is French film with very limited distribution.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-55799217053578913442013-02-13T13:05:29.871-08:002013-02-13T13:05:29.871-08:00"Les Miserables is a world which needs no Gos..."Les Miserables is a world which needs no Gospel and no Church. It is a world where the French ideal and the human mind reigns supreme."<br /><br />No wonder why my sister loved it. Right up her alley.<br /><br />God bless you, Father! You are in my daily prayers.<br /><br />VeronicaVeronicanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-32422666866039360492013-02-09T09:53:37.260-08:002013-02-09T09:53:37.260-08:00@Tim13 and others,
While I can understand that it ...@Tim13 and others,<br />While I can understand that it seems very encouraging for a movie to have lots of catholic imagery in it (chant, crucifixes, et cetera) ... I am not sure that this makes it a truly catholic movie.<br /><br />Now, I'm willing to be fairly positive about the movie -- because I doubt that the director really understands much of the evil brilliance of Hugo -- but I wonder whether the supernatural world-view of the Faith is presented .... or is it more "sentimentality" about forgiveness and charity?<br />That is, does the bishop forgive because he remembers that Jesus forgave, or is it more out of a general "humanitarianism"?Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-63494418742186154532013-02-09T06:07:28.760-08:002013-02-09T06:07:28.760-08:00I haven't read the book, Father. But if it is ...I haven't read the book, Father. But if it is what you say it is, then that must mean that the 2012 film adaptation of its musical is practically an entirely different story altogether! The movie just shouts, no, screams "Catholic" in almost every scene. Never have I seen so many crucifixes in a non-horror and non-mafia-ish Hollywood film.<br /><br />In other words, Father, if what you say is true, then the 2012 film is a grave variation of the novel by Hugo. And as far as the Faith is concerned, the "corruption" of the book's message is actually a very good thing, hehe. Tim13noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-21106340825864885282013-02-08T10:59:48.004-08:002013-02-08T10:59:48.004-08:00Dear Father,
Thank you for your blog post. I love ...Dear Father,<br />Thank you for your blog post. I love the depth that you are willing to go and the questions you often choose to write about. <br /><br />I have not read the book, Les Misérables, but from your description it does indeed sound like a weapon against the Church. I did see the 2012 film and it, on the other hand exhibits the church as compassionate, mysterious, and beautiful. The forgiveness of the priest toward Jean Valjean, the nuns who care for the sick, the rich Gregorian chant that is used in some of the church scenes, and of course Jean Valjean dies in the end, in a Catholic Church. I walked out of the film thinking that whoever directed this film loved the Catholic Church. <br /><br />The movie was very well done and was a rich experience. <br /><br />Thank you again for your blog post Father.<br /><br />PhilipPhilip Mayerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16835250604891582020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-25751847815449426632013-02-06T20:36:05.568-08:002013-02-06T20:36:05.568-08:00Dear Father,
Thank you for your ministry on this...Dear Father, <br /><br />Thank you for your ministry on this blog. You wrote that "no particular act of a man in mortal sin can be properly ordered to God as his final end." Suppose a Catholic fallen into mortal sin would decide to confess and then follow through. This act must be properly ordered to God as the man's final end, yet (under ordinary circumstances) he is not delivered from mortal sin until he is actually absolved. Now certainly it must be said that a man in mortal sin is outside the state of grace. Yet is not the act of deciding to convert/confess (and then doing so) of utmost import for the man's eternal soul and also something most good? Or is the man not the actor in this case but only God?<br /><br />- VasilyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-86803105946194441812013-02-06T07:37:35.989-08:002013-02-06T07:37:35.989-08:00@Jerry,
Do you have a habit of making bold claims ...@Jerry,<br />Do you have a habit of making bold claims without offering any facts to back them up?<br /><br />If you are such a scholar of all things Les Mis ... does or does not the bishop bow before the revolutionary?! Does or does not Hugo make the Church ask forgiveness of the people who slaughtered priests and raped nuns?!Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-26574987594818851912013-02-05T18:22:38.986-08:002013-02-05T18:22:38.986-08:00@Amy S.
I would heartily recommend reading the boo...@Amy S.<br />I would heartily recommend reading the book ( it can be found on-line). If only for the beginning which features the bishop. Perhaps you will then be able to judge as false Fr Ryan's statement :<br />"In the book, Les Miserables, perhaps in all of literature, no character is more detestable, more worthy of scorn, than the bishop." <br />jerrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-57940705096112912272013-02-05T11:04:39.054-08:002013-02-05T11:04:39.054-08:00Further, there may be something to gradualism ... ...<i>Further, there may be something to gradualism ... i.e. better to be a Lutheran than a pagan idolater (I suppose). </i><br /><br />Dear Father. That was a great comment. No doubt some ecumenist will be forwarding your remarks to the Bishop but I think that was one of the truest and most amusing observations I have read in a long time.<br /><br />Kudos Mick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-61345914510089330462013-02-05T08:11:36.308-08:002013-02-05T08:11:36.308-08:00@Anonymous, thank you for the answer, which remind...@Anonymous, thank you for the answer, which reminds me the CCC (1452-1453).Allen Choonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09705299663236919377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-54518410923167599422013-02-04T17:50:30.443-08:002013-02-04T17:50:30.443-08:00@Robert,
I don't believe that Vatican II or an...@Robert,<br />I don't believe that Vatican II or any other official document has ever said that it is good for Catholics to try to convert people to the Lutheran heresy ... however, we can certainly do much work together in promoting basic Christian values!<br /><br />Further, there may be something to gradualism ... i.e. better to be a Lutheran than a pagan idolater (I suppose). But Catholics have to have conversion to the true Church as the ultimate goal. +Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-67855306491541639102013-02-04T17:48:18.280-08:002013-02-04T17:48:18.280-08:00@jerry,
If an unbeliever acts not out of his unbel...@jerry,<br />If an unbeliever acts not out of his unbelief, but out of pity, there is no reason (prima fascia) that this would be a sin.<br />However, if he feed the poor in order to try to convince the poor man that there is no need for organized religion -- he sins.<br /><br />Hope that makes sense ... that is why I said "as an unbeliever" ... it is a slightly complicated discussion, but the whole point of the article is to say "No, not every act is a sin"...Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-42160959414036215492013-02-04T10:33:28.688-08:002013-02-04T10:33:28.688-08:00Wow. A Priest trashing Enlightenment Principles. F...Wow. A Priest trashing Enlightenment Principles. Fantastic.<br /><br />Dear Father. Thank youMick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-19377218763206639762013-02-04T07:29:43.839-08:002013-02-04T07:29:43.839-08:00@Fr. Ryan,
I think the question that Jerry is aski...@Fr. Ryan,<br />I think the question that Jerry is asking is an ecumenical question. If my Lutheran friend decides to go on a mission trip sponsored by his faith and provides some needed medical services to the undeserved, this is seen as a good thing (at least in humanitarian eyes). But If his motive is to use the healthcare to promote the Lutheran faith, then he sins. I guess teachings like this would have a lot of impact in ecumenical discussions (for example could a Catholic go on a heath aid mission sponsored by a secular organization?). It is kind of hard to square teachings like this with the current ecumenical and interfaith outreach of the Vatican.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17505169382802309992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-37889575614906184512013-02-04T03:57:57.148-08:002013-02-04T03:57:57.148-08:00I would suggest, as the Church teaches, if one can...I would suggest, as the Church teaches, if one cannot get to confession and is in the state of mortal sin, then pray the best act of perfect contrition you can. Tell God you are sorry for sinning against his love...that is perfect contrition...not the fear of going to hell. Most newbies to the spiritual life choose the latter, but the spiritually mature person never sins against God because of his love for the whole world. Praying in perfect contrition and promising God to go to confession ASAP is not sinful if the person is in the state of mortal sin.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-30092167093562476922013-02-03T20:33:46.592-08:002013-02-03T20:33:46.592-08:00Father, I have a question. "In mortal sin, ma...Father, I have a question. "In mortal sin, man can do nothing which merits eternal life". <br /><br />If a person, committed mortal sin, or in a state of mortal sin, yet he regretted. Then he tried to do good and penance out of love, before going for the sacrament of reconciliation. Then, does he merit salvation or to hell (during the time before sacrament of reconciliation)?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-21620315895540512172013-02-03T17:00:00.378-08:002013-02-03T17:00:00.378-08:00Father,
Your example uses an extreme case: "o...Father,<br />Your example uses an extreme case: "offer ... to satan ".<br />Kindly address this example. <br />A person professes he does not believe in God. Out of pity (I use the word charity) he assists a neighbour in distress. Does this person sin.jerrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-10483216159229381052013-02-03T15:45:09.343-08:002013-02-03T15:45:09.343-08:00jerry,
I said "as an unbeliever" ... so,...jerry,<br />I said "as an unbeliever" ... so, those things he does for his unbelief or in his unbelief are sinful.<br /><br />Does he plant a vineyard to feed his family? It's not sinful.<br />Does he plant a vineyard in order to offer the grain to satan or to demons? It is sinful.<br /><br />That should be clear enough...Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-52789861225594051052013-02-03T15:36:00.773-08:002013-02-03T15:36:00.773-08:00"Still, we must insist that EVERY act which ..."Still, we must insist that EVERY act which an unbeliever does as an unbeliever is sinful."<br />May i ask what sinful means here.<br />I am open mouthed in astonishment having read this article.jerrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-91167851521772923882013-02-03T11:40:24.354-08:002013-02-03T11:40:24.354-08:00I don't remember the scene you described (the ...I don't remember the scene you described (the bishop begging forgiveness of the revolutionary) being in the movie. Maybe it was there and I just didn't notice.... But not having read the book, I thought the movie was very inspiring and portrayed the Catholic Church in a very positive light. The bishop in the movie seemed to me to "reflect the Light of Christ" and radiate love, forgiveness, & charity. And everything Jean Valjean did after coming into contact with the Bishop's holy example, seemed to be motivated by love. He sacrifices a lot in the movie to do the right thing, and it seems very clear that he is passing along the love he has undeservedly received. Hugo might have sinned gravely in his writing the book, but even so, God can use evil to attain good purposes, and I believe He has done so in this movie. Perhaps not the book -- as I said, I haven't read it. -- Amy S.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com