tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post8115087013063599424..comments2024-03-05T11:44:26.154-08:00Comments on The New Theological Movement: When did the star first appear to the Magi?Father Ryan Erlenbushhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-16456951234456800812011-02-03T14:52:56.131-08:002011-02-03T14:52:56.131-08:00Reginaldus, have you ever read "The Life of C...Reginaldus, have you ever read "The Life of Christ", written by an Italian abbot, Ricciotti, in the 40's? <br />It is a very well written and sound book, IMO. If you want, I can give you what it says about the star (IIRC he mentions that the start was probably not some normal astronomical phenomenon, but of supernatural origin).<br /><br />Interestingly enough, he gives an explanation as to why the Magi made the journey (i.e., why they would come to visit the King of the Jews). If they were in fact Zoroastrians, they were not into astrology for the same reasons as the Chaldeans (diving the future); in fact Zoroastrianismm condemns the practice. It seems they too were expecting a Saviour; even though Zoroastrianism is dualistisc, it seems the were waiting for a Saviour, who would be born of a virigin, who would help Good overcome. It would not be strange then for them to also be aware of the Jews expectations and also be on the lookout.Marco da Vinhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06092410765851812842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-50164447366611996662011-01-04T09:42:46.828-08:002011-01-04T09:42:46.828-08:00I hope to make a post for Jan 6th on why it would ...I hope to make a post for Jan 6th on why it would seem that the star was indeed a newly created star (just for this one purpose) and not a comet or any other star which we now could track. <br /><br />It is a point very open to diverse opinions -- I only hope to present the opinion of St. Thomas and Cornelius a' Lapide. <br />Rather than denying other options, I will attempt to give the reasons for my own opinion.Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-4165284067873175532011-01-03T07:59:17.497-08:002011-01-03T07:59:17.497-08:00I became an amateur astronomer 25 years ago, and l...I became an amateur astronomer 25 years ago, and learned a lot about the night sky that is not obvious unless, like the ancients, one spends a good deal of time looking at the stars. At first I thought the statement that they saw his star "in the east" made no sense. Stars move all night, and if they are in the east at all it is only for a few hours, then they rise overhead and move to the west and set. But then I realized that, indeed, there are stars that are truly "in the east", and not all over the sky like that. "Morning stars" are what they are called. They rise in the east, shortly before morning, and then the daylight blocks them out. They only appear in the east. <br /><br />They ancients looked for and observed nova -- new stars -- and made much of them. Also, comets might appear where there was nothing before. Either a nova or a comet, appears for the first time, and shows in the part of the sky just east of the sun, so it can be seen by those on earth just in the hour before dawn--- in the East. "We saw his star in the east." Newer versions translate it "at its rising". I like the old "in the east" better.<br /><br />I tried to figure out, if a coment had thus appeared, could its trajectory have then moved so that it could have been 'followed' by the magi toward the west, which they obviously would have to do in order to come from the east to Jerusalem, but got lost in the physics. <br /><br />Is it too mundane to suggest this this was an ordinary comet? God often uses the natural to accomplish the supernatural, so why not a 'regular coment' to inspire a search for his own coming into his world? He used ordinary straw for his own bed.<br /><br />A little off the subject of when the star appeared, but I had to chime in.Mikenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-34670647888482762132011-01-01T13:55:15.843-08:002011-01-01T13:55:15.843-08:00Pat,
Blessings to you, especially on this feast of...Pat,<br />Blessings to you, especially on this feast of the Mother of God!<br />Indeed, the Rosary is that great weapon of spiritual warfare. <br /><br />Also, please feel free to enter the discussion as you are able. I don't want my own opinion to dominate this blog, I only want to help to facilitate the discussion in charity.<br /><br />Thank you for your prayers.Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-20665899315413127842011-01-01T13:03:05.959-08:002011-01-01T13:03:05.959-08:00Dear Father Reginaldus,
I'm the first anonymo...Dear Father Reginaldus,<br /><br />I'm the first anonymous at 12/31(7:37) and 1/1(1:31). <br />Thank you for being a Priest. I apologize for not leaving a name, and for not looking at the contributor page.<br />When a Priest speaks, I know to close my mouth and use my two ears. <br />I have a Rosary to finish. I have heard a lot of Priest say,"A Rosary a day helps keep the devil away". I'll include you and the other people here in my prayers.<br />Thank you once again for being a Priest. May God Bless you.<br />sincerely, PatPatnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-66771575241404836302011-01-01T12:11:54.965-08:002011-01-01T12:11:54.965-08:00@Dante,
I am not saying that it absolutely had to ...@Dante,<br />I am not saying that it absolutely had to be one way or the other ... I am only offering what seems to be the general opinion of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church [and on this point there is great diversity, and many possible options are open to us].<br /><br />However, you must see that the appearance of the star is not the same as the OT prophecies ... for one thing, the star itself had been prophesied (by Balaam). Moreover, the star does not announce that the child IS GOING TO BE BORN, but that the child IS BORN -- this is quite clear from Matthew account, "when the Child was born..."<br /><br />Finally, I would add that your own comment proves my point, you say: "All they (the Magi) knew was that it (the star) signaled the birth of" the Christ.<br />You yourself admit it, the star SIGNALED THE BIRTH of Christ! If it signaled the birth of Christ, it wold be very odd for it to have appeared before he was even conceived, let alone two years before he was born!<br /><br />When we approach the Mysteries of Christ's life, we need more than our own reasoning -- we need to look at the Scriptures within the tradition of the Church.<br />So, simply stating "I don't see a problem with such and such" doesn't hold any water. I don't really care whether or not YOU see a problem! What I want to know is this: How has the Church (through her greatest saints and theologians) interpreted the passage.<br />This particular passage has been interpreted many ways (as I state very clearly in the article). There is great room for diversity.<br />But we need to take our cue from the tradition and not from mere personal sentiment...Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-1860275482780251382011-01-01T11:45:41.355-08:002011-01-01T11:45:41.355-08:00I don't see a problem with the magi observing ...I don't see a problem with the magi observing the star 2 years prior. it does not mean they knew of the Incarnation before Our Lady; all theyknew what that it signaled the birth of a unique long-desired and awaited ruler. i find this no more of a "scoop" on Our Lady than any OT prophecy. It was simply a call, an invitation to begin their journey.Dantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15600678598451488566noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-39702306768228541102011-01-01T09:48:50.777-08:002011-01-01T09:48:50.777-08:00@Anonymous (6:19pm),
Please have the decency to at...@Anonymous (6:19pm),<br />Please have the decency to at least leave some pen-name or tag or id or something, so that I don't have to respond to countless "anonymouses".<br /><br />You say "there are a lot of contradictions in the Bible if we read it as a historical book" -- to that I reply that we must read the Bible as it presents itself. Sometimes it is telling us history (as in the Nativity story), other times it is using metaphor (as in the Genesis 1, according to Augustine). <br /><br />There are, in fact, no contradictions in the Infancy Narratives present in Matthew and Luke -- we only need to read them with humility and an open mind.<br /><br />Your comment adds nothing to this discussion ... you speak about what you "firmly believe" but offer no reason to accept your interpretation -- neither from Scripture nor from Tradition. <br /><br />Your reasoning is convoluted, especially when you imply that since Scripture is given for our salvation, it therefore does not need to have any basis in history. But our salvation was worked out in history (though God is outside of time, he saves us within human history and time). <br />Thus, "Holy Mother Church has firmly and with absolute constancy held, and continues to hold, that the four Gospels just named, WHOSE HISTORICAL CHARACTER THE CHURCH UNHESITATINGLY ASSERTS, faithfully hand on what Jesus Christ, while living among men, really did and taught for their eternal salvation until the day He was taken up into heaven." (Vatican II, Dei Verbum 19)Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-36444817144230925582011-01-01T09:19:04.425-08:002011-01-01T09:19:04.425-08:00Why should be wondering when the Star first appear...Why should be wondering when the Star first appeared. We only need its meaning. There are a lot of contradictions in the Bible if we read it as a historical book. In that sense we would have to throw it away; throw it out. We most read it for the sake of our Salvation since has been declared by the Church to be the Word of God. All that is contained in the Bible has a Christian meaning, a Christian true.<br />I firmly believe that G_d can do whatever he pleases and the Magi Start could have appeared two or more years before the Annunciation. We have to keep in mind always that in G_d there is no time. Time does not exists within Him.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-31259206044328145422010-12-31T22:42:10.378-08:002010-12-31T22:42:10.378-08:00Bernardus (Ernie),
Thank you for mentioning Balaa...Bernardus (Ernie), <br />Thank you for mentioning Balaam! In fact, on the traditional feast of Epiphany (Jan 6th), I intend to write a short post about the relation of the Magi to Balaam. At that time I will also discuss whether the Magi came from the far East or simply from a country a little to the east of Israel.<br /><br />You are reading great authors, keep it up!<br /><br />In fact, I am a diocesan priest, though I have great love for the Order of Preachers. My own spirituality is more closely associated with the OSBs, but I am theologically a follower of the Dominican Thomists.<br /><br />Blessings to you, and a happy new year in the Lord!Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-86227424621251584632010-12-31T19:13:24.601-08:002010-12-31T19:13:24.601-08:00Dear Fr. Reginaldus,
I think that none of the disc...Dear Fr. Reginaldus,<br />I think that none of the discussion as you have penned should be considered without some deep thought and a lot of intense consulting with the church fathers and doctors. I find the sublime nudging you do through your words very refreshing. It is a if a teacher is laying open an argument for debate stipulating proofs to support ones argument. Or proposing a hypothesis and offering the basis of proofs.<br />That being said, I submit:<br />(Biblical references Douay Rheims)<br />The prophecy of Balaam in Numbers xxiv 17.<br />The story of that prophecy occurring in the East (perhaps around Arabia).<br />The Evangelist stated they came from the East.<br />The authority of ancient Fathers (St. Justin, Tertullian, St. Cyprian, St. Epiphanius et al) agreeing the Magi came from Idumea and Arabia.<br />Psalm lxxi 15.<br />Is lx 6.<br />These Magi would have well known the prophecy of Balaam as it took place in a region of Arabia(Moab).<br /><br />I cite all this from the text of "The Life and Glories of St. Joseph" by Edward Healy Thompson, Antonio Vitali, Father Jose Moreno and others.<br /><br />Again I reflect that the scripture references alone call out for prayerful meditation on all that was foretold and then laid out in the Gospel; a lectio divina. The ancient Church Fathers and Doctors need due consideration in all thought of this.<br /><br />My prayers are with you always. Please pray for me.<br /><br />P.S. (I am sorry for asking) Are you of The Order of Preachers?Bernardushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09343171766154713726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-43257406133127483522010-12-31T16:31:11.939-08:002010-12-31T16:31:11.939-08:00Dear Reginaldus, I dont' know who could have ...Dear Reginaldus, I dont' know who could have seen the star. I put question marks after my statements.<br /><br />I listen to the homilies from the Priests. I can't quote Father Rudolfo Llamas exactly (He may be at St. Joe in Elk Grove CA), but he said the Magi lost track of the "star" when they went to the palace in Jerusalem. The Priest said the Magi were thinking like people looking for the Newborn King in a palace. God was born in a manager. The star reappeared when the Magi were back on track.<br /><br />Please contact the Priest, I'm sure he would like to know his homilies reach hearts.<br /><br />Father Llamas (like all Priests) said God's salvation is open to everyone. You get into Heaven by having a catholic heart...not by just sitting in the pew of a Catholic Church. <br /><br />Love God...Love your neighbor. To combine a lot of homilies...there are a lot of paths to Heavven. But whatever path you are on, (in a God given way) Jesus Christ, Holy Mother our Church, and the Pope will be leading the way. <br /><br />I'm just trying to explain "the catholic heart" statement as I heard it from various Priests. Anyone headed on the path to Heaven would not agrue with the Pope about moral truths!<br /><br />If I sound confused, forgive me...I'm not a Priest.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-78319139599650461412010-12-31T15:00:16.812-08:002010-12-31T15:00:16.812-08:00Msgr., You are certainly correct in the idea that ...Msgr., You are certainly correct in the idea that we have to infer some ellipses somewhere!<br />The interpretation I have preferred puts the "..." in Matthew's account, between the departure of the Magi and the flight into Egypt. You propose putting them into Luke's account between the purification of Mary and the return to Nazareth.<br /><br />I suppose the difficulty with thinking that the slaughtering of the Innocents happened very shortly after the Nativity is that it is hard to understand why Herod killed the two year olds (unless the star had appeared two years before Christ's birth, which I argue against in the article).<br /><br />If, on the other hand, the massacre happened about two years after the first Christmas, then it is more likely that the Holy Family returned to Nazareth after the Presentation and remained there for some time before the angel came to Joseph in the dream and they fled to Egypt.<br /><br />Or, to offer yet another possibility, we might say that the Holy Family fled immediately after the Presentation (taking your ellipses), but also maintain that the massacre did not happen for nearly two years (thereby explaining why the two year olds were killed).<br /><br />Many many possibilities... So long as we affirm the historicity of the Gospels (and ground ourselves in some manner in the tradition of the Fathers and Doctors) I am very open to any explanation.<br /><br />Christmas and Epiphany blessings to you!Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-50060820086726784462010-12-31T14:37:26.146-08:002010-12-31T14:37:26.146-08:00I wonder if it is necessary to try and weave Luke&...I wonder if it is necessary to try and weave Luke's account of the return to Nazareth at all in setting the timing of the dream and the flight. Is it not possible that Luke chose not to treat of the flight ot Egpyt at all. He does not deny the trip but merely doesn't metion it since Matthew had already done that. Thus in saying that the Holy Family returned to Nazareth, this actually refers to their return there after returning from Egpyt.<br /><br />It is a well attested fact that the Gospel writers often omitted even significant things covered by other Gospels either becuase it did not suit their purpose to include it or because others had. For example, Matt and Mark do not even mention the Jersalem resurrection appearances but send us right to Galilee whereas John and Luke DO include such appearances. <br /><br />Hence would it not be possible to understand Luke's reference to the return to Nazareth as actually including ellipses (....) which are supplied by Matthew. Those ellipses would include the several year detour to Egpyt. This at least makes the iternary and time frame a little less busy since there are not all these side trips back and forth from Bethlehem to Nazareth and back.Msgr. Popehttp://blog.adw.orfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-55526985363098797082010-12-31T13:15:14.592-08:002010-12-31T13:15:14.592-08:00Michael Molnar's book, The Star of Bethlehem, ...Michael Molnar's book, The Star of Bethlehem, to me is the most believable and plausible explanation of the star of Bethlehem. He has a web site at http://www.eclipse.net/~molnar/<br /><br />One reviewer wrote:<br />The Star of Bethlehem: The Legacy of the Magi has stunning new insight and approach, which finally gives a confident answer to a question that has fascinated all Christians through the ages. ... don't buy any other book on the Star of Bethlehem, because the old astronomical views are guaranteed to be irrelevant." — Prof. Bradley E. Schaefer, Yale University<br /><br />Brian<br />(Happy New Year)Stormyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07338310343317047418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-57229446691220624262010-12-31T13:14:51.550-08:002010-12-31T13:14:51.550-08:00Wild Bill,
Thank you for the additional reflectio...Wild Bill, <br />Thank you for the additional reflection!<br />Actually, this would be evidence against the sequence which I want to maintain -- for I want to say that the Magi came 13 days after the birth and that the purification happened 40 days after the Nativity.<br /><br />I would argue that the Holy Family didn't offer the greater offerings because these were given to signify spiritual gifts and so did not obligate Joseph to offer anything more than 2 turtledoves or 2 pigeons.<br /><br />Nevertheless, thanks for joining the discussion. It is good for us to think about these things in common -- and then to take it all back to prayer.<br />Blessings.Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-63975309243393223902010-12-31T13:03:42.120-08:002010-12-31T13:03:42.120-08:00Fr. Reginaldus, further evidence for the sequence ...Fr. Reginaldus, further evidence for the sequence you present. From Luke 2:22-24, they brought an offering of two turtledoves or two young pigeons. These are minimal, offerings acceptable only from the poor. The Magi's gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh were great riches; they would have been obligated for a greater offering and I'm certain Joseph would have given it without hesitation. So the Purification must have come before the visit of the Magi.Wild Billhttp://www.commonplaciana.blogger.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-45732395600876862352010-12-31T12:49:30.797-08:002010-12-31T12:49:30.797-08:00Andrew,
You are correct, there is a difficulty to ...Andrew,<br />You are correct, there is a difficulty to maintaining that the flight left from Nazareth.<br /><br />However, I think you can see the dilemma involved in thinking that they fled from Bethlehem: Luke tells us that after the presentation in the Temple, the Holy Family returned to Nazareth. We can be certain that the presentation occurred before the flight to Egypt, so it is almost certain that Joseph received the dream in Nazareth.<br /><br />Now, the reason why the angel still told them to flee from Nazareth to Egypt is this: Herod was consumed with his rage and desired to search out the Child. After he slaughtered all those Infants in Bethlehem, he searched through all of Israel (including Galilee) to see if the Child had perchance escaped to another city.<br />It is likely (according to Lapide) that John the Baptist had to be hidden in the desert at this time (when he was only about 2 years old), so as to avoid the people sent from Herod. [John lived near Jerusalem, but his city did not neighbor Bethlehem]<br /><br />For this reason Joseph took Jesus and Mary to Egypt -- though the slaughtering took place in Bethlehem, not even Galilee was safe from the murderous plots of Herod.<br /><br />I hope that this makes sense -- I say it not as dogma, but as speculation (based on the Fathers and Doctors).<br /><br />Peace to you!Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-47950817558204391032010-12-31T12:41:28.963-08:002010-12-31T12:41:28.963-08:00@Michael, I am actually not too pleased with the c...@Michael, I am actually not too pleased with the commentary from the Catholic Encyclopedia ... it dismisses the tradition (and especially St. Augustine) in a very off-handed manner.<br /><br />While I do find it interesting that Christ is often depicted as a few months old rather than as an infant, in the images of the Adoration of the Magi; I still would object to arguing that they came after several months or years.<br /><br />St. Thomas seems to think that it would be unbecoming that Christ should be made known to the gentiles so long after his birth.<br /><br />I guess the main problem I have with the Cath. Encyclopedia article is that it doesn't give any evidence that the view has any basis in the interpretations given by the Fathers of the Church. Any time someone starts interpreting Scripture without referencing the Tradition, I think we have a problem.<br /><br /><br />All that being said, you make a couple of real good points:<br />1) This theory would at least maintain that the star did not appear until the Nativity.<br />2) This theory also allows for the Magi to have come from the far East (though I actually agree with Jerome in thinking that they came from a neighboring country).<br />3) This theory helps to account for the fact that children 2 years old were slaughtered.<br />4) Finally, this theory allows us to maintain that Joseph fled right after the Magi left (which seems to be implied by Matthew).<br />[on the other hand, Matthew also seems to imply that the Magi arrived in Bethlehem shortly after the birth...]<br /><br />In any case, there is certainly great room for diversity of opinion on this matter. Thank you for offering this additional explanation!<br /><br />Christmas blessings to you!Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-59337641984230364682010-12-31T12:31:09.114-08:002010-12-31T12:31:09.114-08:00Thanks for the interesting post.
However, one par...Thanks for the interesting post.<br /><br />However, one part of your chronology doesn't quite make sense to me: Why would the angel tell Joseph to flee to Egypt around the time of the slaughtering of the Innocents if, at that time, the Holy Family were already in Nazareth (a good distance away from Bethlehem)? It seems that the slaughter of the Innocents had to have taken place when the Holy Family was still in Bethlehem - otherwise, they would have had no reason to flee (seeing as Herod's slaughter was limited to Bethlehem and the nearby area, as Matthew tells us).Andrewnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-862174084145195852010-12-31T12:28:59.232-08:002010-12-31T12:28:59.232-08:00ronconte, Thanks for the additional point of view ...ronconte, Thanks for the additional point of view from Bl. Anne Catherine. <br />I am not too comfortable with the idea that the star was a comet though ... the Fathers and Doctors are generally of the opinion that it was a new star created specifically for this one purpose (hence it does not move in the pattern of the other stars or of the comets). There is of course, room for diversity on this point.<br /><br />@Jill, I have seen that website before ... it looks very interesting.<br />I am, however, of the opinion that the star was created specifically for the purpose of leading the Magi and that, after this, it disappeared. Thus, it would not be traceable by astronomy. <br />This is the opinion of St. Thomas and Cornelius a'Lapide ... but there is room for diversity on this point.<br /><br />@Anonymous (7:37pm), A nice couple of words from the NAB.<br />However, are you suggesting that the star could not be seen by anyone other than the Magi? Or even that it was not a star at all, but simply a vision given to the Magi? To me, this would seem unlikely ...Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-8402685157058033682010-12-31T10:37:54.675-08:002010-12-31T10:37:54.675-08:00This line from the New American Bible must be incl...This line from the New American Bible must be included in any explanation about the birth of Christ, "After their audience with the king they set out. And behold, the star that they had seen at its rising preceded them, until it came and stopped over the place where the child was. They were overjoyed at seeing the star." The star seems to move and then stop. Who can see it?---Those that are looking for Christ with a "catholic" heart? Maybe the "star" is still a mystery.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-87009931993914745982010-12-31T09:48:06.878-08:002010-12-31T09:48:06.878-08:00I've never heard of this explanation before, b...I've never heard of this explanation before, but it certainly makes a lot of sense. Previously I had only been acquainted with the explanation of the Catholic Encyclopedia (<a href="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09527a.htm" rel="nofollow">Magi</a>).<br /><br />Essentially this other theory is: After the Presentation, the Holy Family went to Nazareth as St. Luke said. At some later point they returned to Bethlehem where, about two years after the birth of Christ the Magi found him. The flight to Egypt and the massacre of the Innocents would have occurred more or less immediately after the visit of the Magi.<br /><br />Since the Magi would have seen the star on or after the first Christmas, there is no problem with it being unfitting that the Magi know about the birth of Christ before His Mother. And, depending on the time between their first seeing the star and their arrival, it is still possible that they came from far in the East as is traditional.<br /><br />Of particular interest, I thought, in Encyclopedia article was: "Only one early monument represents the Child in the crib while the Magi adore; in others Jesus rests upon Mary's knees and is at times fairly well grown."<br /><br />Not that I'm saying I think your explanation is wrong, because it fits the facts excellently. Quite honestly, I don't know which theory I prefer.Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-4612423073195704292010-12-31T09:36:31.676-08:002010-12-31T09:36:31.676-08:00You really should look at bethlehemstar.net for as...You really should look at bethlehemstar.net for astounding astronomical and scriptural confirmation.<br /><br />Rick Lawson, a lawyer, has done an outstanding job using star software that can pinpoint the location of the stars at any time.<br /><br />ETWN showed a lecture of his outlining his findings a couple of days agoJillhttp://www.estatevaults.com/bolnoreply@blogger.com