tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post8769357419933657904..comments2024-03-05T11:44:26.154-08:00Comments on The New Theological Movement: Christ did not grow in grace or in holinessFather Ryan Erlenbushhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-87340841846841050222013-05-04T18:26:00.069-07:002013-05-04T18:26:00.069-07:00@Paul,
The context and the other audiences make it...@Paul,<br />The context and the other audiences make it clear that this "increase" as Christ aged was an increased manifestation of the perfection of grace in Christ.Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-69939243691277601502013-05-03T14:35:33.560-07:002013-05-03T14:35:33.560-07:00Thanks for the interesting links to JP2's audi...Thanks for the interesting links to JP2's audiences. When I read that of June 27th 1990 I saw the Pope said<br />"However, the fullness of grace in Jesus was in proportion to his age; there was always fullness, but a fullness which increased as he grew in age. "<br /><br />Doesn't that contradict your argument that he didn't increase in grace?<br />Paul, Ireland.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-32251697707568086832013-01-19T13:53:55.846-08:002013-01-19T13:53:55.846-08:00Seraphim,
I have read that some Antiochene Father...Seraphim,<br /><br />I have read that some Antiochene Fathers speak sounding this way sometimes. I think what should be remembered is that both the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox - who preach theosis very strongly - strongly reject these semi-Nestorian notions where the soul of Christ is united progressively with the Word. In fact, in my experience, the Eastern theologians downplay the humanity of Christ more so than the Catholic Church. That doesn't make them heretical - nor the Assyrian Church of the East which does tend to emphasize a distinction between the human soul and Word in Jesus - but just different tendencies within the bounds of orthodox understanding. I must confess I am a bit unclear of where the Church stands on the Oriental concept of miaphysitism (which has been confused for Eutychianism, or the heresy monophysitism). Perhaps Father might have some input.<br /><br />The Oriental Orthodox reject, in fact, dyophysitism entirely and favor what they call miaphysitism. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the Nestorian-Assyrian Antiochene tendencies that you describe are not universally Eastern in any sense, and those who speak most strongly about theosis would be the most opposed to Christ's own divinization (as opposed to our own). <br /><br />I love the Eastern Churches very much, but we have to remember there are, in fact, at least three different, sometimes conflicting theologies in the East whether Chalcedonian Eastern, Assyrian/"Nestorian," and non-Chalcedonian Oriental/Coptic/Ethiopian.<br /><br />Alcuin of New YorkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-41917319774066037252013-01-19T11:39:56.891-08:002013-01-19T11:39:56.891-08:00Seraphim,
In typical modern eastern fashion, you w...Seraphim,<br />In typical modern eastern fashion, you wrote a lot and said nothing.<br /><br />It is absurd to say that Christ's humanity was progressively more united to the divinity and more "divinized" through his life (excepting, of course, the fact that the glory of his soul overflowed to the resurrection of his body).<br /><br />For the record, every Eastern Father would condemn as a heresy the idea that Jesus increased in grace and holiness through his life.Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-58050806637092322832013-01-19T09:19:36.118-08:002013-01-19T09:19:36.118-08:00Scripture does not say that we saw Jesus' and ...Scripture does not say that we saw Jesus' and grace become more manifested. It really says that he advanced in wisdom and grace before God as well as men. You're doing violence to the text of Sacred Scripture.<br /><br />But, Christ was perfectly and completely sinless. Grace and holiness are not defined by an absence of sin (THAT smacks of the Protestant ideas about imputed justification), but rather by life in Christ - which grows, even when sin is absent to begin with. The Theotokos was holier than the unfallen Eve; indeed, she is holier than the angels ("more honorable than the cherubim, and beyond compare more glorious than the Seraphim...", in the words of the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom). The solution to this theological problem is a return to St. Gregory of Nyssa's concept of epektasis - continual growth in theosis, in holiness, in divine grace for all eternity, which will be experienced by all the saints. (C. S. Lewis described this adventure quite well at the end of "The Last Battle". Getting to Heaven is not a static state that ends - eternity according to St. Boethius is fullness of life, the capturing of all time in an eternal present, not the reduction of time to a static moment.)<br /><br />"Anyone may increase in wisdom and grace in two ways. First inasmuch as the very habits of wisdom and grace are increased; and in this way Christ did not increase. Secondly, as regards the effects, i.e. inasmuch as they do wiser and greater works; and in this way Christ increased in wisdom and grace even as in age, since in the course of time He did more perfect works, to prove Himself true man, both in the things of God, and in the things of man."<br /><br />There is a third way for Christ to increase in grace, and that is to increase (through His sacred humanity) in life and unity with God. Grace cannot be reduced to habits and works; it is deeper than that - the life of God in the soul. It is theosis, divinization, not just a good habit.Seraphimhttp://byzantinechesterton.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-5055968477761945462013-01-17T00:57:43.785-08:002013-01-17T00:57:43.785-08:00"Dear Father. You are a delight to read. How&..."Dear Father. You are a delight to read. How'd you ever sneak through a modern seminary ? :)"<br /><br />Did you learn Thomism in the seminary, Father? Because in the last 60 years or so, Novelle Theologie has taken root in most corners of the Church. Clinton R.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-49537727010521346612013-01-16T13:48:03.226-08:002013-01-16T13:48:03.226-08:00Monique,
Sanctifying grace is that stable reality ...Monique,<br />Sanctifying grace is that stable reality in the soul by which the Most Holy Trinity dwells within us.<br />[that is my own words, off the top of my head]<br /><br />Hope that helps! +Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-86542103751306570632013-01-16T12:50:54.119-08:002013-01-16T12:50:54.119-08:00Could you please in your own words define grace?Could you please in your own words define grace?Moniquenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-87318547556057448792013-01-16T07:45:05.321-08:002013-01-16T07:45:05.321-08:00I loved the article. Thank you, Father. I am alw...I loved the article. Thank you, Father. I am always distressed when our Pastor, during his homilies, makes statements like, "Mary got angry with Jesus for staying in the Temple for three days without telling her", or "Jesus was a typical Boy: talking back to His mother, whining, etc." He mocks me when I try to correct his incorrect perceptions of Jesus, Mary and Joseph or the Angels and Saints. I have reached a point where I don't trust him, so I go to Confession to another Church; and I don't respect him. I do, however, still pray for him. Shirley J. Schultzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17045363027639885740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-43588279490007446882013-01-16T05:51:29.955-08:002013-01-16T05:51:29.955-08:00Dear Father. You are a delight to read. How'd ...Dear Father. You are a delight to read. How'd you ever sneak through a modern seminary ? :)Mick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-12420866490874735652013-01-15T23:56:18.803-08:002013-01-15T23:56:18.803-08:00Thank you Father.
So basically, what makes the con...Thank you Father.<br />So basically, what makes the confession sacrilegious is concealing truth about our mortal sins and not about our personal information.Marko Ivančičevićhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04579400863718513875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-20791111472303953672013-01-15T19:32:16.545-08:002013-01-15T19:32:16.545-08:00@Marko,
I would say that I don't think so ... ...@Marko,<br />I would say that I don't think so ... it doesn't sound like it was a direct lie (though perhaps not the whole truth, neither was it really a lie) ... further, you were not hiding a mortal sin from the priest ... therefore, I do not think that this would make the confession sacrilegious ... so, as far as I can tell, you should be at peace. <br /><br />God's blessings! +Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-4068507487156927702013-01-15T11:52:40.054-08:002013-01-15T11:52:40.054-08:00And Jesus advanced in wisdom and age and grace wit...And Jesus advanced in wisdom and age and grace with God and men. <br /><br />I understand that Jesus would increase in wisdom and age and grace with men (who are ignorant), as those things were revealed to them, but how can this increase in knowledge of these attributes be applied to God (all knowing)?<br /><br />Why wouldn't God the Father already know these things?<br /><br />God bless,<br />MichaelCM7https://www.blogger.com/profile/07438061668265715771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-49746029167290638422013-01-15T10:35:36.122-08:002013-01-15T10:35:36.122-08:00Father
Excelent article as always.
I want to ask ...Father<br />Excelent article as always.<br /><br />I want to ask you a question even if it is an off topic because i'm in serious need.<br /><br />I was at confession. After i said my sins the priest asked me if i read the Gospels and i said yes, even if i don't do it on regular basis(but i have read them before and on the very same day). Now, in the moment when i said "yes" i said "yes" because i didn't want to say "no", and i taught of myself as not reading the Gospels on a regular basis. Later it occured to me that i in fact read the Gospels that same day and i asked myself:"Was this a lie? Or i just didn't remember in that given moment that i have read the Gospels? Does this fact that i read them make that "yes" not a lie? ". I don't even know why i said "yes" if i taught of my reading as "no". Maybe out of shame...Maybe i have a problem with lying.<br /><br />Have i lied? Have i done a sacrilegious confession?Marko Ivančičevićhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04579400863718513875noreply@blogger.com