tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post8898031859496508945..comments2024-03-05T11:44:26.154-08:00Comments on The New Theological Movement: Stealing from the poorFather Ryan Erlenbushhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-65973184295984514012012-10-02T10:42:17.397-07:002012-10-02T10:42:17.397-07:00I am stunned at how many here appear to be trying ...I am stunned at how many here appear to be trying to find loopholes in what the Fathers have said. Comments like "who difines a little something for the future?"<br /><br />Let me give you an easy hint: Living in a $70 million dollar house with a yacht and four cars outside does not qualify for proper use of one's money or saving for the future. It qualifies as greed and mortal sin.<br /><br />Kapish?IrishEddieOHarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13239323643595343708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-56093678657379579732011-05-14T21:19:18.856-07:002011-05-14T21:19:18.856-07:00Nick, thanks for the tip ... this was actually a s...Nick, thanks for the tip ... this was actually a system wide problem on blogger -- all blogs at blogspot.com were down for almost 24 hours ... and the comments from that period were lost (as well as the posts).<br /><br />Peace! +Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-9422930898022277762011-05-14T17:11:29.658-07:002011-05-14T17:11:29.658-07:00I would like to add a side note: In the event a co...I would like to add a side note: In the event a comment is not posted, thought it should be, it is likely that it was caught in the Comment Spam Filter of your blog and thus needs to be manually released by the blog admin.Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01453168437883536663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-68532938290374251442011-05-13T16:25:04.092-07:002011-05-13T16:25:04.092-07:00[in a comment mistakenly deleted by the blogger we...[in a comment mistakenly deleted by the blogger website] Nick wrote:<br /><br />"I would like to add two texts from Sacred Scripture in support of the thesis: <br /><br />James 2:15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? 17So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.<br /><br />1 John 3:17 If anyone has the world’s goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God’s love abide in him?"Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-34610544409734695792011-05-12T12:03:35.701-07:002011-05-12T12:03:35.701-07:00I would like to add two texts from Sacred Scriptur...I would like to add two texts from Sacred Scripture in support of the thesis: <br /><br />James 2:15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? 17So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.<br /><br />1 John 3:17 If anyone has the world’s goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God’s love abide in him?Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01453168437883536663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-5458871907329751742010-09-16T09:36:35.721-07:002010-09-16T09:36:35.721-07:00@Anonymous - isydel (Aug 22, 4:19am),
As I have a...@Anonymous - isydel (Aug 22, 4:19am),<br /><br />As I have already explained to you: the %10 is given in support of the Church. The Tithe IS NOT alms!<br /><br />All the things you cited from EWTN are very good...but they HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ARTICLE! Everything you are talking about deals with the obligation "to assist with the needs of the Church". <br /><br />What we are talking about here is the obligation which the rich have to give to the poor. All their excess luxury must be given to the poor, so long as there are poor to give to. This is pretty clear from Paul VI (cited at the end of the article).<br /><br />Obviously, "excess wealth" and "extra luxury" are not clearly defined. That is up to the individual conscience of the rich person. Clearly, neither the government nor even the Church can make specific definitions.<br /><br />What I am trying to do with this and other articles is to form the conscience so that we can make better decisions. <br /><br />So, thank you for informing us what the experts from EWTN Q and A have said. But the comments you have posted do not refer to what our question is.<br /><br />By the way: If these men are "experts", so too are the authors of this blog -- for we too have the STL degrees which they have. (I do bow however to Fr. John Echert, how is a shining lamp in our dark time)Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-63448246476879547902010-08-21T19:19:03.803-07:002010-08-21T19:19:03.803-07:00I wanted to share with you what the Q and A expert...I wanted to share with you what the Q and A experts on EWTN have said:<br /><br />We are obliged to support the local Catholic parish in accord with our means; for those who are destitute or have some particularly heavy bills that are not a result of excessively lavish living, they may even be excused from such an obligation--though even a small offering from those who have little is pleasing to God.<br />Fr. John Echert<br /> https://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage_print.asp?number=426240&language=en<br /> <br />....Catholics are required by a Church precept to support the work of the Church. Those who want to be generous can certainly give 10%. It is just not required by the moral or ecclesiastical law. <br />Colin B. Donovan, STL <br />http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage.asp?Pgnu=1&Pg=Forum12&recnu=15&number=439103<br /><br />According to can. 222 §1, in the Code of Canon Law, "The Christian faithful are obliged to assist with the needs of the Church so that the Church has what is necessary for divine worship, for the works of the apostolate and of charity, and for the decent support of ministers." No minimum percentage of income has been set. It is left to the conscience of individuals,<br />David Gregson <br />http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage_print.asp?number=431279&language=en<br /><br /><br />isydelAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-31345672224704167462010-08-04T13:29:26.872-07:002010-08-04T13:29:26.872-07:00@Anonymous (Aug 4, 4:14am)
You wrote: "Will y...@Anonymous (Aug 4, 4:14am)<br />You wrote: "Will you be the first in line to give everything above what you need?"<br /><br />My response: Don't ever insinuate that either I or any reader of this blog is insincere or pharisaical (commanding for others what he does not live himself). <br />In the future, I will delete the comment immediately.<br /><br />Many who write for this blog and who read this blog are far more committed to their beliefs than you give them credit for.Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-72342984475481678422010-08-04T13:24:37.511-07:002010-08-04T13:24:37.511-07:00From 2 Cor 8:
"You are well acquainted with t...From 2 Cor 8:<br />"You are well acquainted with the favor shown you by our Lord Jesus Christ: how for your sake he made himself poor though he was rich, so that you might become rich by his poverty. I am about to give you some advice on this matter of rich and poor. ... The relief of others ought not to impoverish you; there should be a certain equality. Your plenty at the present time should supply their need so that their surplus may one day supply your need, with equality as a result."<br /><br />To those who have referred to 2 Thess 3:10 "Who will not work, let him not eat." I respond: Are you prepared to apply this saying to the mentally ill, to the dying, the sick, the orphan, the elderly, the addict? Will you starve the child? Will you starve the old man who relies upon Medicare? Will you starve the lunatic? How about the poor woman who, as a young girl became addicted to drugs...does she deserve to die?<br />You who quote St. Paul in this way (saying, "I am with St. Paul") make me feel sick. <br />This is no less than an ABUSE of Sacred Scripture, contrary to the SOUND DOCTRINE of the Fathers of the Church and the later Magisterium. <br />Stop your tongue! Read the Church Fathers and St. Thomas, read the Magisterium and especially the Compendium of Social Doctrine. <br />Even more, pray to God for a more generous heart.Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-30629890963786781262010-08-04T13:12:05.822-07:002010-08-04T13:12:05.822-07:00Muzhik, I think you are basically correct. Over-in...Muzhik, I think you are basically correct. Over-involvement on the part of the government will often lead to under-involvement of the people.<br />It is a principle of Catholic Social Doctrine that the government should not intervene in the redistribution of wealth unless the gravest of circumstances necessitate this.<br /><br />@Splinda, who is with one of the random "anonymouses"...you said, "Social justice is also known as socialism"...that is a false statement. Social justice is not socialism. Socialism is contrary to the Catholic faith, it places society above the individual. "Social justice" refers to equitable dealings between individuals in a given society. <br /><br />I'm glad you are with St. Paul, nearly every letter concludes with an exhortation to give to the collection for the poor in Jerusalem.Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-65471140359371707042010-08-04T13:05:30.570-07:002010-08-04T13:05:30.570-07:00@Anonymous and Anonymous and Anonymous,
Please giv...@Anonymous and Anonymous and Anonymous,<br />Please give some indication of a "tag" or "ID" so that I can respond properly.<br />Thank you to Anonymous (Rosa), Anonymous (isydel), Anonymous (Muzhik), for providing some means of identification.<br /><br />To the other "anonymouses": I will respond, when you give some ID so that I can respond properly.<br />In the future, I will feel free to delete any comments that are from purely Anonymous authors--those who neglect to give any indication of ID or "tag".Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-16371359926348788932010-08-03T22:37:09.985-07:002010-08-03T22:37:09.985-07:00Trying to live according to one's faith is a s...Trying to live according to one's faith is a struggle against our fallen inclinations but it is necessary to struggle. The thing to keep in mind in order to grow in generosity is to remember to love our neighbors as ourselves, bring Christ to them and serve Christ in them; just like the Virgin Mary when she visited Saint Elisabeth who in her old age was with child and in need of help.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-36857587085623600242010-08-03T20:26:43.128-07:002010-08-03T20:26:43.128-07:00What if someone works say 60 hour or more work wee...What if someone works say 60 hour or more work weeks building up a business and eventually is able to hire employees. In addition, this businessperson is then able to give to various charities, including a church of his/her choosing. This person has become rich, but you say he/she is stealing from the poor when they employ others and support them thru different charities? Social justice is also known as socialism, which has always failed whenever it has been tried around the world. I'm with Anonymous - St. Paul got it right.splindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01355264653303876184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-40737625405385743132010-08-03T19:14:28.185-07:002010-08-03T19:14:28.185-07:00What doctrine are you trying to support? Will you...What doctrine are you trying to support? Will you be the first in line to give everything above what you need? Everyone should have an "equal share" is pure socialism at its worst. Russia failed and so will every government and peoples fail who promotes the "everyone deserves the same" doctrine. . The first century church tried this approach (Acts 4:34-38) but it didn't last long. Giving a fish to a person instead of teaching him to fish creates a person who will not fish. Paul in Thessalonians 3:10 said "In fact, when we were with you, we instructed you that if anyone was unwilling to work, neither should that one eat." The doctrine proposed is contrary to the love that Christ gave us. We do because we want to, not because we have too. God does not demand, he offers. He does not usurp free will, even if a soul is lost. We give Him our will because we believe it is in line with the truth He teaches. We strive for the truth because of grace and not because of command. Thomas Aquinas is one of the most taken out of context tools used by others who want what you have. There are people who need help and we must help them, but there are many who are lazy and unwilling to share the burdens. I think I'll stick with Paul when dealing with the unwilling.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-21105596274973617192010-08-03T18:57:07.273-07:002010-08-03T18:57:07.273-07:00Muzhik, thank you for your insight. I couldn'...Muzhik, thank you for your insight. I couldn't agree more. Let's not forget the enemies of religion have infiltrated the universities teaching the youth socialist/communist views. It's my opinion Biden and Pelosi and other non practicing Catholics were shaped in the universities. I wouldn't be surprised if they have also infiltrated the Catholic Church.<br /><br />RosaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-72873021430689202062010-08-03T18:22:36.190-07:002010-08-03T18:22:36.190-07:00"2. According to the article all persons hoar..."2. According to the article all persons hoarding more than what they needed (plus a little for the future) are in danger of committing a mortal sin. That would include most of the people I know who are middle class." You are correct, but that does not invalidate the point. If looked at objectively, the average middle-class American, whether they are Christian or not, is living a life 100 times more sinful than all the Egyptian Pharaohs put together. Just because our society lives a certain way does not make that way correct.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-63068238456529397762010-08-03T13:13:52.009-07:002010-08-03T13:13:52.009-07:00@Reginaldus:
I feel it's important to include ...@Reginaldus:<br />I feel it's important to include the "role of the government" in this discussion. As I was reading this essay, I experienced a growing horror at recognizing quotes and statements that I have seen used to justify the secular government's role in developing and enforcing "social justice" among its citizens. <br /><br />Your earlier explanation describing the need for an individual to practice and exhibit prudence is on the mark. Secular governments, by their nature, tend to discount the ability of the average person (or even the necessity or desirability of that person) to have or use prudence. Prudence requires communion with G_D to identify what is prudent in each individual's own personal situation. As such, secular governments cannot depend on an individual's prudence to be pointed in the direction the state wishes to go; ergo the need for the state to define and direct corporate social justice that everyone MUST support. This relieves the individual of the need to develop and use prudence. <br /><br />We must therefore struggle not only within ourselves to develop prudence and generosity, we must struggle against a state that desires to use our own teachings and beliefs against us to support its own morals and ethics, separate from those of God's.<br /><br />MuzhikAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-13823814372882634382010-07-31T17:44:01.066-07:002010-07-31T17:44:01.066-07:00Diffal
Does Caritatis in Veritate cover this subje...Diffal<br />Does Caritatis in Veritate cover this subject and what does it say?<br />Thanks<br />isydelAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-21634576138544278302010-07-31T13:20:23.648-07:002010-07-31T13:20:23.648-07:00Why doesn't Caritatis in Veritate get a menti...Why doesn't Caritatis in Veritate get a mention?Diffalnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-31700907233801558422010-07-30T19:46:42.613-07:002010-07-30T19:46:42.613-07:00Another relevent point is the OT practice of '...Another relevent point is the OT practice of 'gleaning'. The laws of Moses forbade stripping your own fields of the last bits of a crop, but left those crops missed on the first pass of the harvesters to be gleaned by the poor.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-6504504619650695882010-07-30T13:48:54.073-07:002010-07-30T13:48:54.073-07:00@ Anonymous (July 30 9:01pm)
I'm not sure what...@ Anonymous (July 30 9:01pm)<br />I'm not sure what your discussion of the role of the government and the increase problem of dependency on government programs adds to this discussion.<br />What the Fathers of the Church, St. Thomas Aquinas, and the Church's Magisterium are talking about IS NOT government hand-outs. We are here concerned with INDIVIDUALS giving money, food, clothing, etc. to other INDIVIDUALS.<br /><br />As far as the definition of terms...I think it is abundantly clear from the article that the "poor" are those who lack "the basic material necessities of life".<br />As far as the "rich" and "excess wealth"...see the Magisterial quotes which refer to that which is left over "when what necessity demands has been supplied and one's standing fairly provided for", or "a person's superfluous income".<br /><br />Nothing in this article has made an attack on Capitalism...why do you feel a need to defend it? Are you implicitly claiming that something in the magisterial teaching would cause problems for Capitalism?<br /><br />Finally, as to your use of the (in)famous passage of Scripture "The poor you will always have with you" (which is from John 12:8, by the way), please see the interpretation offered in the Catechism (CCC 2449): In the second half of the verse, "...but you do not always have me", the Lord "does not soften the vehemence of former oracles against 'buying the poor for silver and the needy for a pair of sandals...,' but invites us to recognize his own presence in the poor who are his brethren."Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-4955299608776967652010-07-30T12:01:16.306-07:002010-07-30T12:01:16.306-07:00"Poor", "excess", and several ..."Poor", "excess", and several other key terms in this article are undefined term and have different meanings for different people. Each needs a precise definition for such writings as these to be substantial contributions to the discussion of social justice in the religious sense. As for the modern secular/political/governmental sense of the term social justice, James Madison wrote (I paraphrase here) "charity is not an appropriate activity of government," and I must agree with him. The reason for the current existence of social injustice is three-fold: the lack in the past and present of sufficient charity on the part of nominal Christians, the increasing socially-acceptability of governmental dependency, and the divinely-lamented ineradicability of poverty ("The poor you will always have with you"), the latter of which never can be an excuse for a lack of Christian charity. We must not kill the goose ("capitalism") that lays the golden eggs, and we must remember we are NOT God, so we will never be able to entirely banish true poverty.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-6355544781222977342010-07-30T06:06:31.356-07:002010-07-30T06:06:31.356-07:00Reginaldus
I have assumed your permission to Tito ...Reginaldus<br />I have assumed your permission to Tito would apply to anyone of good will, and I have, with full credit and links, also reprinted your post on my blog, Nimble As The Pen of A Scribe. Thank you so much for making this teaching so accessible.<br />Robert<br />nimblepen.blogspot.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-10176557992276301252010-07-29T18:30:03.502-07:002010-07-29T18:30:03.502-07:00@Reginaldus,
Thank you!
It will appear on The Am...@Reginaldus,<br /><br />Thank you!<br /><br />It will appear on The American Catholic tomorrow morning (7-30-2010) at midnight Central Standard Time.<br /><br />Full credit will be given to you, your article, and your website. With links going back to your article and website.<br /><br />http://the-american-catholic.com/<br /><br />Thank you again and God bless!<br /><br />In Jesus, Mary, & Joseph,<br /><br />TitoTito Edwardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12218771096085701665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-54693904660026253852010-07-29T17:43:04.391-07:002010-07-29T17:43:04.391-07:00@Tito Edwards,
Please feel free to reprint the pos...@Tito Edwards,<br />Please feel free to reprint the post with a link to the New Theological Movement blog.<br />Many blessings to you!<br />ReginaldFather Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.com