tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post1869674117582653077..comments2024-03-25T17:14:03.066-07:00Comments on The New Theological Movement: Does Christ mean that we cannot ever judge anyone?Father Ryan Erlenbushhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-13239788254228542182012-07-11T15:55:57.119-07:002012-07-11T15:55:57.119-07:00Great stuff. Thx Fr. for the post.
YanGreat stuff. Thx Fr. for the post.<br /><br />YanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-19032287378689030512012-07-11T08:43:46.708-07:002012-07-11T08:43:46.708-07:00As Duan pointed correctly to, it is not that we ar...As Duan pointed correctly to, it is not that we are never ever allowed to "judge" privately.<br /><br />I could promote lots of quotes by theologians here - and historical examples in Church-history.<br /><br />Remember, there is the "correctio fraterna", that would be impossible without beeing allowed to private "judgement".<br /><br />And we are even sometimes allowed to resist superiors or higher persons, as St. Thomas explains when he speaks about Galatians 2, 11 (cf. his qu. in the summa).<br /><br />Again, St. Paul must have "judged" that Peter were wrong here to resist him - and of course not authoritatively, but only privately (because Paul was not Peter´s superior).<br /><br />So only rash judgement is prohibited according to moral theology, not every private "judgement".<br />If you have evidence, privat "judgement" can be allowed or even sometimes a duty.<br /><br />Well, perhaps better not to call it "judgement" then, because it is not "judgement" i.t.s.s. of the word.<br />Or call it judging the acts, not the persons, if you like, as suggested above.Picardnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-67653962145822163172012-07-08T07:25:11.837-07:002012-07-08T07:25:11.837-07:00Father:
I believe that the injunction to not judg...Father:<br /><br />I believe that the injunction to not judge does not mean that a private individual absolutely may never judge a neighbor. Sometimes the evidence is such that reasonable assumptions allow one to hold that another has committed a moral fault. Of course, even assumptions of that sort are still subject, more or less, to a margin of error, since the workings of another's conscience is generally hidden to observation.<br /><br />The Official Catechism of the Catholic Church states that rash judgment arises when a person, “even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor.” And “to avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor's thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way.”<br /><br />From a Manual of Christian Doctrine (1910) by a Seminary Professor, from the Institute of the Brothers of the Christian Schools, there is this:<br />2. Rash Judgment and Suspicion.<br />59. What is a rash judgment ?<br />A rash judgment is an act of the mind by which, for light and insufficient reasons, we condemn our neighbor as unquestionably vicious and culpable.<br />60. What is a rash suspicion ?<br />A rash suspicion is the inclination to consider as true the evil which we think of others, without, however, believing it to be certain.<br />61. What is a rash doubt ?<br />A rash doubt is the suspension of judgment in respect to the merits of our neighbor, without sufficient reason.<br />63. In general, what should we do so as not to commit sin in forming an estimate of our neighbor's conduct ?<br />In general, when we form an estimate of the external actions of our neighbor, we should not judge his intentions, for these God alone knows.<br /><br />In Moral Theology by Fr. Heribert Jone(1962) there is this additional point that can be made about judgments: To exercise caution in regard to others is not sinful, “since one does not think evil of one's neighbor, but merely reckons with the factual possibility of one's being deceived” about the righteousness of another, and “suffer from such deception.”<br /><br />DuaneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-48334034535570218912012-06-26T14:02:21.293-07:002012-06-26T14:02:21.293-07:00ellen, and others,
Yes, certainly parents have a d...ellen, and others,<br />Yes, certainly parents have a duty to watch over their children. Thank you for mentioning that point!<br /><br />Here is a little bit more from St Francis de Sales (you will easily see how it applies) --<br /><br />"Of course exception must be made as to those who are responsible for others, whether in family or public life;--to all such it becomes a matter of conscience to watch over the conduct of their fellows. Let them fulfil their duty lovingly, and let them also give heed to restrain themselves within the bounds of that duty."<br /><br />Hope that clarifies a bit! It is a very grave responsibility to have authority over others ... we must needs pray the good God to direct us and help us to be both merciful and clement. +Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-45111481663640126512012-06-26T13:59:28.271-07:002012-06-26T13:59:28.271-07:00Regarding the question of judging and action vs ju...Regarding the question of judging and action vs judging a person:<br /><br />While it is true that this distinction is "theoretically" very helpful, in practice it is quite tricky.<br />For example: We may learn that a Cardinal died in a house of ill repute ... and not realize he was there to administer Last Rites to one of the girls (and this really did happen to a very prominent theologian/Cardinal in the years right after Vatican II).<br /><br />Or, we might see a young priest not in his clerics and out to a movie with a young woman ... and not realize that she is his sister (again, I know this case personally). [however, I should note, that the priest ought to have been in his collar -- but we might think the sin is worse than it really is]<br /><br />There are so many cases were we say we are only judging the action ... but in fact we are not in any place to make such a judgment.<br /><br />However, we do indeed affirm that sin is sin and it is wrong ... but we must be careful to judge whether a particular action is always as it seems.<br /><br />And still, this implies no compromise with sin. No, we must hate sin.Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-76852926031938413832012-06-26T12:00:13.174-07:002012-06-26T12:00:13.174-07:00And yet one of the spiritual works of mercy is to ...And yet one of the spiritual works of mercy is to correct the sinner. Are only priests to do this? What about parents? As a parent, I have to make judgements all the time. I am not judging the person's standing before God, but I must make determinations about many things in order to "do my job". For instance, can my child spend time with a particular friend, who I may have reason to believe may not be promoting virtue in their relationship? I am not trying to be a smart aleck, but this has always bothered me. Even for myself, if I know a person is a near occasion of sin for me, I am duty bound to limit or end my time with them. But to get to this point, I have had to have made a judgement about the situation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-7494983025141895812012-06-26T08:08:19.547-07:002012-06-26T08:08:19.547-07:00Father:
Don't we have an obligation to point o...Father:<br />Don't we have an obligation to point out that certain conduct is objectively wrong or sinful but leaving the subjective culpability of the person committing that act to the judgement of God alone? Also, don't laypersons also have the obligation to make fraternal correction after prayer and consultation with one's spiritual adviser? thank you. <br />MarkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-91223944228282986912012-06-26T07:28:08.773-07:002012-06-26T07:28:08.773-07:00It appears that you do not draw a distinction betw...It appears that you do not draw a distinction between judging a person and judging a person's action or activity? However, if I read you correctly, you can have an opinion if your judgment is based on true justice or what man has authority to judge or if your opinion is based on moral certainty. These jugdments would be obtained from Church teachings so as to form a good conscience. Without a properly formed conscience, formed through Church teachings, one would not be able to distinguish good from bad or be able to point out, i.e., give an opinion, as to whether actions are sinful. Thus, it would not be judgmental to point to activity and say "That is bad" but would be judgmental to say about the individual "He is going to hell because of that bad activity." What do you think.<br />WoodyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-69186140872560973782012-06-26T06:56:52.528-07:002012-06-26T06:56:52.528-07:00Thank you so much for this, Father. To continue a...Thank you so much for this, Father. To continue along the lines of Michael's question, is it considered judging someone to make them aware of a sin they continue to commit? I suppose I am wondering about the balance between not judging, yet showing concern for the soul of friends or even family. It seems like it would not be an act of charity to, say, not inform a legally divorced person that they may not get married again because their marriage to their first spouse is still (presumably) valid. But this can also be considered a judgement or condemnation of the individual. Is there a balance here? Thank you, God love you.Bobby Bambinohttp://www.jillstanek.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-29995363632696742322012-06-26T06:12:50.757-07:002012-06-26T06:12:50.757-07:00A really difficult case is where parents have to m...A really difficult case is where parents have to make a judgement about a child's behaviour, especially an adult child. For instance, if a child seems to be living a very immoral lifestyle but denies it, what should the parent do?ellennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-20012588099275095832012-06-26T05:09:58.523-07:002012-06-26T05:09:58.523-07:00Dear father,
I think it would be good for us mode...Dear father,<br /><br />I think it would be good for us moderns to get a good and strict definition of what "judgment" actually is. Because I think it is nowadays often equated with any sort of uncompromising attitude towards sin. What is your take on what the Haydock Bible Commentary says on the passage from Matthew 7:1 (found here: http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id21.html)? <br /><br />It should be noted however that fraternal correction – an act of charity – is quite different from judgment in the sense meant here, even though it involves judgments in a broad sense of the word. And in some cases even inferiors should admonish their superiors, as can be surmised from the Summa (II-II, q33, a4), which means that not even such admonishment can be equated with judgment, since judgment strictly always belongs to the superior and not to the inferior.<br /><br />Do you have any suggestions for a good definition of judgment in the sense meant by Christ here?<br /><br />In the Sacred Heart of Jesus,<br />DavidDavidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-76807988357524587222012-06-25T18:38:37.984-07:002012-06-25T18:38:37.984-07:00Father,
What is the best way to explain the differ...Father,<br />What is the best way to explain the difference between admonishing the sinner and the judgement of our neighbor which is not approved of in Matthew 7? When we are admonishing the sinner is it correct to say that we are judging an action to be wrong?Leohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01031935211714687253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-44400424587261523882012-06-25T16:02:12.769-07:002012-06-25T16:02:12.769-07:00Michael,
Good question!
Our Lord, in that place,...Michael, <br />Good question! <br />Our Lord, in that place, refers to the judgment which the prelates of the Church must render on certain occasions ... in this, it is like with the magistrates (who judge by the authority which God has given them).<br /><br />Likewise, when St. Paul says that we will judge angels (1 Cor 6) ... he is principally referring to the fact that the great saints will judge the world at the end of time ... it is not judgment now, but on the last day.<br /><br />I wrote an article on this once before, you may find it helpful: http://newtheologicalmovement.blogspot.com/2011/11/who-will-judge-and-who-will-be-judged.html<br /><br /><br />Still, (acting as men, and not with the authority of God as when the Pope or Bishop acts as pastor of the Church) we must never judge our neighbor.<br /><br />Peace! +Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-80249575999255076012012-06-25T15:54:11.500-07:002012-06-25T15:54:11.500-07:00What about Matthew 18:15 and other instances in th...What about Matthew 18:15 and other instances in the New Testament, where Jesus or St. Paul tells us to correct people when they sin?<br /><br />Could this be reconciled by telling someone to stop getting drunk but making sure you don't say they're going to hell?Michaelnoreply@blogger.com