tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post2555439379314162005..comments2024-03-25T17:14:03.066-07:00Comments on The New Theological Movement: What happened to Epiphanytide?, or The hypocrisy of the Liturgical RenewalFather Ryan Erlenbushhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-16480779830638095862013-12-29T13:12:44.628-08:002013-12-29T13:12:44.628-08:00As a convert from Protestantism, the NO calender s...As a convert from Protestantism, the NO calender simply reeks of things protestant. It's like having a 100 watt bulb on in a small closet - those of us who have come from "those side of the tracks" see it readily. We know that there were several Protestant ministers on the reform committees during Vatican II's changes to the liturgy and ordination rite. Unfortunately, when the Church starts basing itself on the "protestant way", in time, all will be made redundant. We can see this in the severe falling away of the faithful and the ignorance of so many that still remain - Catholics have, in essence, almost ceased to be Catholic. Her culture is dead, or practically dead... Thank God that we still have the TLM!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-61054840519868578702012-01-07T01:36:21.397-08:002012-01-07T01:36:21.397-08:00Reform of the calendar didn't happen during th...Reform of the calendar didn't happen during the Council but few years after it and it was led by Bugnini and the so called experts who ruined liturgy. Since the reform ITSELF is not done during the Council i have no fear in claiming it lacks Divine Inspiration...<br /><br />We also can see the fruits of the reform. There are more bad fruits than those that are good...sadly..<br />If fruits of Holy Spirit are bad then we're in big trouble...Marko Ivančičevićhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04579400863718513875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-79762977292892286652011-01-20T16:12:37.115-08:002011-01-20T16:12:37.115-08:00@David,
You are correct and you make a good point ...@David,<br />You are correct and you make a good point about the Innocents.<br /><br />However, I would respond that the feast of the Holy Innocents is closer to the feast of John the Evangelist or of Thomas Becket, than to the Ascension or the Baptism of the Lord or the Holy Family.<br /><br />Let me explain -- St. Stephen is the day after Christmas although he was many years after the Epiphany.<br />The point is this: saints' feast days are not meant to present a chronology of the Lord's life. However, the movement from Christmas to the Baptism of the Lord is about the chronology of Christ's life. This is why moving the feast of Holy Family has done much to destroy the Christmas season.<br /><br />Hence, there is no real comparison between the feast of the Holy Innocents and the feast of Holy Family (regarding the date of the feast).<br /><br />Does that make sense?Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-22560359141541139872011-01-20T12:58:04.294-08:002011-01-20T12:58:04.294-08:00Great post.
I just want to bring up one counter ...Great post. <br /><br />I just want to bring up one counter point with respect to the proposition that moving the feast of the Holy Family destroys the timeline of the Christmas narrative. The events recalled on the Feast of the Holy Innocents, which remains on the 28th, are also chronologically after the appearance of the Magi.<br /><br />DavidDavid Nowaczewskinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-14642211443295553542011-01-14T10:52:40.051-08:002011-01-14T10:52:40.051-08:00Rex,
Thank you for your kind reply. I am sorry t...Rex, <br /><br />Thank you for your kind reply. I am sorry to have ruined your serious conversation. It will be a great relief to you to know that I will never post again on this website after thanking you. I suspect that it will simply make Reginaldus laugh as he will know it is not a serious question. There is clearly no room for any frivolity here, and any frivoulous posts should clearly be dealt with in a quick fashion. I am glad your postscript was so charitably addressed. I am not on Facebook anymore however as it is a true waste of time. Goodbye and God Bless<br /> The Former Poster Formerly Known as NACERNACERnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-58785709190386350472011-01-14T07:09:22.457-08:002011-01-14T07:09:22.457-08:00Reginaldus,
Thank you for your discourse on the l...Reginaldus,<br /><br />Thank you for your discourse on the liturgical calendar. <br /><br />When we speak about the reform of the calendar (and though this could spill over to other liturgical areas, we will just stick with the calendar), what do you think of the motivation behind the reforms? As you pointed out, various liturgical reforms were taking place in the years preceding the Council, e.g. Pius XII. Could you be discounting the motivations behind the changes too lightly? <br /><br />The Council Fathers obviously had liturgical experiences during the course of their lifetimes and, of course, were guided by the Holy Spirit with the desire to reform the liturgical year. That being the case, should we not give some deference to the commission (and the commission given to them by the Magisterium) that reformed the calendar? Could one not also say that the reform itself was an organic result of almost 2000 years of liturgical formation, albeit, the reform took place in a very abrupt and sudden way, during a time when the formation of all Catholics was also in flux.<br /><br />Your thoughts please.<br /><br />p.s.—As for NACER, you should relegate your own issues to sitting around in a sharing circle and personal posts on Facebook.Rexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-66897182437673297842011-01-14T02:48:46.635-08:002011-01-14T02:48:46.635-08:00Reginald,
Sorry to change the nature of the conve...Reginald, <br />Sorry to change the nature of the conversation but I have some issues which require your opinion. A very naive seminarian who is easily led by the winds of opinion, is abandoning reading of the Fathers and disdaining them due to an attack on Peter Lombard and "teaching in a School"by his Sacramental theology lecturer. This lecturer insists we should do an exegesis on obscure Eucharistic prayers to learn the sacraments including Baptism and Confirmation. He also can be rude in exams. How should I guide this poor soul who has been taken in. On another topic have you heard of Yavis ministry and what do you think of this type of ministry? It is popular at my college. Even good men become very caught up in it.NACERnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-48920528661654417222011-01-13T15:37:31.432-08:002011-01-13T15:37:31.432-08:00Kate, Thank you for continuing to read NTM. As I a...Kate, Thank you for continuing to read NTM. As I am sure you noticed, in my article I linked to your very good article on "Holy Family"; I hope that you do not mind.<br /><br />Regarding whether these changes will happen soon...I suppose you are correct, we will have to wait a very long time for the changes to happen.<br />Personally, I don't think that the new "changes" are too big of a deal -- after all, they only make a difference for the english speaking world.<br />Nevertheless, I still think that the changes will not happen any time soon precisely because of the Holy Father's views -- Benedict seems to want to take change very very slowly, and this means that even the good changes that need to happen will have to happen very slowly and organically. It is something which can be frustrating (because part of me would like to see it all fixed right now), but I do admit that the Holy Father has a good point -- it was rapid change that got us into this mess, but it will be slow and organic change that will get us out.<br /><br />Blessings to you in the Lord, and happy feast of Christ's Baptism!Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-77618866503057159172011-01-13T13:14:25.833-08:002011-01-13T13:14:25.833-08:00Yes indeed, a little calendar reform to more close...Yes indeed, a little calendar reform to more closely align it to tradition could do much good!<br /><br />Unfortunately, with the current changes to the Missal about to come in, I suspect we will have to wait a few more years for this, not withstanding the Holy Father's personal views on the subject.Kate Edwardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01000040465724868745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-73520911570698686872011-01-12T21:43:00.842-08:002011-01-12T21:43:00.842-08:00Quite a good and thorough analysis here Reginaldus...Quite a good and thorough analysis here Reginaldus. Thanks for this post.Msgr. Popehttp://blog.asw.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-5923425213213674762011-01-12T20:32:57.452-08:002011-01-12T20:32:57.452-08:00@Cordelia,
You are correct about the Epiphany of t...@Cordelia,<br />You are correct about the Epiphany of the Son being that of the Father -- "he who sees me sees the Father" ... however, my main point here is that the Baptism is an Epiphany of Christ just as much as the visitation/adoration of the Magi is an Epiphany of Christ. The Lord was manifested to the Magi by the star and by the inner movement of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of the Magi; likewise at the Jordan, the Lord is made manifest to all (publicly) by the descent of the Holy Spirit and the voice of the Father.<br /><br />The "wonderful irony" I mention is simply the fact that the Octave of Epiphany (the octave of the feast of the "manifestation" of Christ) is focused entirely on the hidden life of Jesus, about which almost nothing at all has been made manifest. It seems to be a most beautiful example of the Lord's mirth. (this is maintained only in the pre-1970 calendar)<br /><br />btw, I really loved your article about the Nativity set which you posted at CatholicPhoenix.com (December 28) -- I had meant to post a comment, but things just got too busy at my parish. I thought about it several times during Christmastide, it really made me smile!Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-86059859183384110192011-01-12T08:09:02.157-08:002011-01-12T08:09:02.157-08:00"Nevertheless, the primary significance of ce..."Nevertheless, the primary significance of celebrating the Baptism of the Lord on the Octave of the Epiphany is the theological connection between these two feasts. [The Feast of the Holy Family which traditionally falls on the Sunday in the Octave of the Epiphany, reminds us that (in a wonderfully ironic way) Epiphanytide commemorates the whole of Christ’s hidden life.]"<br /><br />Father, I am familiar with idea that the Epiphany of the Son is the Epiphany of the Father. Is this what you are referring to when stating that there is a theological connection between the traditional feasts of Ephiphanytide? I hope I'm making sense.Cordelia at Catholic Phoenixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04781343757689670170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-33486123380193277302011-01-11T21:40:30.977-08:002011-01-11T21:40:30.977-08:00It is sad that the Church moved many a fixed holy ...It is sad that the Church moved many a fixed holy day strictly for the convenience of the laity "so they will not sin by missing Mass at an inconvenient time for them". So much for any form of sacrifices for the Lord these days! The article was most appropriate and was a recent topic of discussion in my family.We try as much as possible to follow the 1962 Liturgical Calendar.<br /><br />Gino RAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-59168798345834682112011-01-11T20:52:18.387-08:002011-01-11T20:52:18.387-08:00Ted K, indeed it is very sad that we have lost the...Ted K, indeed it is very sad that we have lost the Ember Days...<br />The other points you mention are also well put!<br />Peace!Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-74234054319562778252011-01-11T17:46:29.513-08:002011-01-11T17:46:29.513-08:00Very good post. Msgr Bugnini and his "expert&...Very good post. Msgr Bugnini and his "expert" committees convinced the popes over the many years that discarding 1400 years of Catholic practice was a good thing. Regarding this posting, the last Sundays after the Epiphany were often transferred to the last Sundays after Pentecost depending on the date of Easter, and Ratzinger has also pointed out that the Gospels for these Sundays deal with seeds, and as anyone who knows anything about farming knows that seeding can be done in the Fall as well as the Spring making these Gospels very relevent to the order of nature and its seasons at the proper time. And what happened to the ancient seasonal Ember days? Were they to difficult for modern man to observe? For me, perhaps the most mistaken de-forming of the ecclesiastical year is that now we are meant to go cold turkey on our Lenten sacrifices rather than have the 3 ancient pre-Lenten Sundays (Septuagesima etc) to prepare us for this so as to make a holy Lent..... I think the new calendar should be revisited and corrected according to Church tradition.Ted Knoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-59380854962036634332011-01-11T15:35:52.471-08:002011-01-11T15:35:52.471-08:00Nick,
You will notice that the article begins wit...Nick, <br />You will notice that the article begins with a quote from then Cardinal Ratzinger ... I suspect that the Holy Father is doing all in his power to rectify the situation in a pastoral way. <br />Thanks for the encouragement. Let's keep Benedict in our prayers. Blessings to you.Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-24784566883575045252011-01-11T15:14:50.064-08:002011-01-11T15:14:50.064-08:00You should write to the Vatican about this. I myse...You should write to the Vatican about this. I myself wrote the Pope a letter on prayer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com