tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post3819679364430344150..comments2024-03-25T17:14:03.066-07:00Comments on The New Theological Movement: The death of the Blessed Virgin Mary, a Latin traditionFather Ryan Erlenbushhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-39495255105173500132013-03-25T15:02:37.845-07:002013-03-25T15:02:37.845-07:00Another good piece is by Lawrence P. Everett, C.Ss...Another good piece is by Lawrence P. Everett, C.Ss.R., S.T.D. at http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=469Javier R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16331928596206242407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-62516356811549944982012-08-01T22:19:42.599-07:002012-08-01T22:19:42.599-07:00Fr.Erlenbush, how did the Virgin Mary die if she w...Fr.Erlenbush, how did the Virgin Mary die if she was conceived without the stain of original sin and did not commit sin? Natural death is strictly a consequence of sin. I look forward to your reply! God Bless you for your service and promulgation of orthodoxy!Alexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-80083451807787349232011-10-15T09:26:57.435-07:002011-10-15T09:26:57.435-07:00Les,
Though it is not a de fide definition, it is ...Les,<br />Though it is not a de fide definition, it is a matter of the ordinary magisterium and therefore must be held and respected by all Catholics.<br /><br />It is a "sententia certa" -- theologically, we are certain that the Virgin Mary did die.<br /><br />Peace! +Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-35143793301107948732011-10-10T12:33:26.627-07:002011-10-10T12:33:26.627-07:00Fr. Erlenbush,
Given that "...the definition...Fr. Erlenbush,<br /><br />Given that "...the definition infallibly declared by Pius XII does not explicitly state that the Blessed Virgin suffered death", are Catholics obligated to believe that Mary died before her Assumption?<br /><br />If so, under what theological grade of certainty are we obliged to believe that Mary died before being Assumed?Lesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-10606745816291676422011-09-10T08:10:39.789-07:002011-09-10T08:10:39.789-07:00Alexandra,
So long as we understand that Mary did ...Alexandra,<br />So long as we understand that Mary did not have to "choose" in order to be given the unique grace of the Immaculate Conception.<br />Neither need there be anything in Mary (as a creature) to justify God giving her and her alone this unique grace.<br />The generous will of God can give Mary special graces which she did not earn -- and, although he does not give the same graces to all, this does not contradict justice.<br /><br />It was on these two points that I rejected St. John M's comments.Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-80520848862439021412011-09-09T19:45:38.602-07:002011-09-09T19:45:38.602-07:00"As for other men, excluding Him Who is the c..."As for other men, excluding Him Who is the cornerstone, I do not see for them any other means to become temples of God and to be dwellings for God apart from spiritual rebirth, which must absolutely be preceded by fleshly birth. Thus, no matter how much we might think about children who are in the womb of the mother, and even though the word of the holy Evangelist who says of John the Baptist that he leaped for joy in the womb of his mother (which occurred not otherwise than by the action of the Holy Spirit), or the word of the Lord Himself spoken to Jeremiah: I have sanctified thee before thou didst leave the womb of thy mother (Jer. 1:5)- no matter how much these might or might not give us basis for thinking that children in this condition are capable of a certain sanctification, still in any case it cannot be doubted that the sanctification by which all of us together and each of us separately become the temple of God is possible only for those who are reborn, and rebirth always presupposes birth. Only those who have already been born can be united with Christ and be in union with this Divine Body which makes His Church the living temple of the majesty of God" (Blessed Augustine, Letter 187).<br /><br /> This teaching contradicts also Sacred Tradition, which is contained in numerous Patristic writings, where there is mentioned the exalted sanctity of the Virgin Mary from Her very birth, as well as Her cleansing by the Holy Spirit at Her conception of Christ, but not at Her own conception by Anna. "There is none without stain before Thee, even though his life be but a day, save Thee alone, Jesus Christ our God, Who didst appear on earth without sin, and through Whom we all trust to obtain mercy and the remission of sins" (St. Basil the Great, Third Prayer of Vespers of Pentecost). "But when Christ came through a pure, virginal, unwedded, God-fearing, undefiled Mother without wedlock and without father, and inasmuch as it befitted Him to be born, He purified the female nature, rejected the bitter Eve and overthrew the laws of the flesh" (St. Gregory the Theologian, "In Praise of Virginity"). However, even then, as Sts. Basil the Great and John Chrysostom speak of this, She was not placed in the state of being unable to sin, but continued to take care for Her salvation and overcame all temptations (St. John Chrysostom, Commentary on John, Homily 85; St. Basil the Great, Epistle 160).<br />http://www.stmaryofegypt.org/library/st_john_maximovich/on_veneration_of_the_theotokos.htm#immaculate_conceptionAlexandra M.G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03904783533174922746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-58115009764000113382011-09-09T19:45:13.795-07:002011-09-09T19:45:13.795-07:00To Seraphim,
here are some quotes:
".....Be...To Seraphim, <br /><br />here are some quotes:<br />".....Bernard, who is acknowledged there [in the West] as a great authority, wrote, " I am frightened now, seeing that certain of you have desired to change the condition of important matters, introducing a new festival unknown to the Church, unapproved by reason, unjustified by ancient tradition. Are we really more learned and more pious than our fathers? You will say, 'One must glorify the Mother of God as much as Possible.' This is true; but the glorification given to the Queen of Heaven demands discernment. This Royal Virgin does not have need of false glorifications, possessing as She does true crowns of glory and signs of dignity. Glorify the purity of Her flesh and the sanctity of Her life. Marvel at the abundance of the gifts of this Virgin; venerate Her Divine Son; exalt Her Who conceived without knowing concupiscence and gave birth without knowing pain. But what does one yet need to add to these dignities? People say that one must revere the conception which preceded the glorious birth-giving; for if the conception had not preceded, the birth-giving also would not have been glorious. But what would one say if anyone for the same reason should demand the same kind of veneration of the father and mother of Holy Mary? One might equally demand the same for Her grandparents and great-grandparents, to infinity. Moreover, how can there not be sin in the place where there was concupiscence? All the more, let one not say that the Holy Virgin was conceived of the Holy Spirit and not of man. I say decisively that the Holy Spirit descended upon Her, but not that He came with Her."<br /><br />"I say that the Virgin Mary could not be sanctified before Her conception, inasmuch as She did not exist. if, all the more, She could not be sanctified in the moment of Her conception by reason of the sin which is inseparable from conception, then it remains to believe that She was sanctified after She was conceived in the womb of Her mother. This sanctification, if it annihilates sin, makes holy Her birth, but not Her conception. No one is given the right to be conceived in sanctity; only the Lord Christ was conceived of the Holy Spirit, and He alone is holy from His very conception. Excluding Him, it is to all the descendants of Adam that must be referred that which one of them says of himself, both out of a feeling of humility and in acknowledgement of the truth: Behold I was conceived in iniquities (Ps. 50:7). How can one demand that this conception be holy, when it was not the work of the Holy Spirit, not to mention that it came from concupiscence? The Holy Virgin, of course, rejects that glory which, evidently, glorifies sin. She cannot in any way justify a novelty invented in spite of the teaching of the Church, a novelty which is the mother of imprudence, the sister of unbelief, and the daughter of lightmindedness" (Bernard, Epistle 174; cited, as were the references from Blessed Augustine, from Lebedev).Alexandra M.G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03904783533174922746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-9347264482671133292011-09-09T19:40:29.336-07:002011-09-09T19:40:29.336-07:00Seraphim,
I had never heard that St. John (Maximo...Seraphim,<br /><br />I had never heard that St. John (Maximovitch) of Shanghai and San Francisco was sloppy as a theologian - I understand that you put it in the context of intellect, not sanctity - yet still I never heard that I will follow up with my priest. I have heard of him as a wonderworker, clairvoyant and prophetic. He is much loved in the Orthodox community, as is Fr. Seraphim Rose. Below are some excerpts from an article by St. John. We could probably go on and on with quotes, but I thought it was worth including a few and the link. I really am thankful for your insight into both Western Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, the Eastern Catholic Church fascinates me. It is my understanding there was contemplation among the Early Church Fathers (and later theologians) as to whether the Virgin Mary was untainted by original sin, but I also understood that there was a consensus among them that she was conceived like the rest of mankind. The first is by the Western theologian, Bernard of Clairvaux, a doctor of the church especially devoted to the Blessed Mother.<br />to be cont....Alexandra M.G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03904783533174922746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-8705856594155882342011-09-09T18:48:21.055-07:002011-09-09T18:48:21.055-07:00Fr. Ryan, the only danger here lies in my inabilit...Fr. Ryan, the only danger here lies in my inability for lack of time or knowledge to convey most accurately what the Orthodox Church teaches about the Blessed Mother. "Rejoice O Virgin Theotokos, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. For thou has born the Saviour of our souls." If I failed to convey the importance of grace in prior posts, perhaps I felt like it was obvious. Nothing about the Virgin Mary is without the Grace of God. Through the grace of God, Joachim and Anna conceived her in their old age. Through grace, Mary chose (her own free will) to live a spotless life. It's a mystery to me where exactly the two, Grace and Free Will, meet. We cannot comprehend everything - this is why some things are left a mystery, especially when it comes to the Virgin Mary. <br /><br />Just as we don't earn our Salvation, Mary could never earn her role in the universe. Our salvation is given to us by the Grace of God. Therefore, the Virgin Mary by Grace of God, was who she was, however, she cooperated (and we cooperate too, but by Grace we are saved - we don't even meet God half way, not even close, but we accept His Grace and do good works to increase our faith to be closer to God). The Virgin Mary is exemplary for all Christians; God bestowed His grace on her and she accepted her role (the Annunciation) and always made her will one with God's will. Again, a mystery beyond human comprehension, which is why the Eastern Orthodox Church does not try to explain in doctrine the inexplicable, but instead to glorify and be in awe of the Queen and joy of all who sorrow.Alexandra M.G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03904783533174922746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-50440645484652328622011-09-08T17:27:32.558-07:002011-09-08T17:27:32.558-07:00Alexandra, You still have the idea that Mary had t...Alexandra, You still have the idea that Mary had to choose before God would work his grace ... this is quite a dangerous thought ... the simple fact is that God can remit sin in a child without the assent of the child's will ... not that God works AGAINST our free will, but simply to say that the child has no use of free will and is yet sanctified by grace ... such was the case when Mary was Conceived Immaculate.<br />Peace. +Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-83646694034119968222011-09-08T17:24:50.909-07:002011-09-08T17:24:50.909-07:00"The fact that her will was God's will (y..."The fact that her will was God's will (yet she had the freedom to choose) exalts her even more."<br /><br />Alexandra, thank you for that beautiful and succinct sentence - it speaks many lyrical volumes!<br /><br />Peace,<br /><br />SeraphimSeraphimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00147139664156379333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-19639608136363198582011-09-08T17:14:08.432-07:002011-09-08T17:14:08.432-07:00Alexandra,
Please see my above comment for an exp...Alexandra,<br /><br />Please see my above comment for an explanation of a better Orthodox objection to the Immaculate Conception. I do think that the phrasing of St. John Maximovitch was guilty of Pelagianism, inadvertantly as it may have been. He was a holy bishop and missionary (as evidenced by the incorruption of his relics), but sometimes quite a bit sloppy as a theologian, a fault more of his intellect than of his sanctity. The same fault was shared by his disciple, Blessed Seraphim (Rose) of Platina, who was also incorrupt and whose body gave off the fragrance of roses after his death, but who has been heavily and justly criticized by other Orthodox for undue influence from Gnostic traditions.<br /><br />And for the historic acceptance of the phrase "Immaculate Conception" by the Orthodox Church, especially by the Ukrainian saints of the Kyievan Baroque (who formed lay brotherhoods named the "Confraternity of the Immaculate Conception"), including incidentally a different St. John Maximovitch (ancestor of the one you were quoting), see the article by Fr. Lev Gillet that I linked.<br /><br />There is a lot of Patristic support for the dogma in the Latin Fathers, whom I'm not as familiar with as the Greek. St. Proclus of Constantinople whom I quoted was a 5th-century Father.<br /><br />Here are a handful of quotations from the Fathers that I could find, some Latin and some Greek:<br /><br />“This Virgin Mother of the Only-begotten of God is called Mary, worthy of God, immaculate of the immaculate, one of the one.” (Origen, Homily 1 [A.D. 244]).<br /><br />“Come, then, and search out your sheep, not through your servants or hired men, but do it yourself. Lift me up bodily and in the flesh, which is fallen in Adam. Lift me up not from Sarah but from Mary, a Virgin not only undefiled but a Virgin whom grace had made inviolate, free of every stain of sin.” (St. Ambrose, Commentary on Psalm 118:22-30 [A.D. 387])<br /><br />For later Patristic teaching of the Immaculate Conception, you'll find it in Cyril Loukaris' homily on the Dormition. And St. Gregory Palamas went even farther and taught the progressive gracing of the entire ancestry of Our Lord, so that by the time the Theotokos was conceived without any stain of original sin whatsoever it was the consummation and fulfillment of a long, gradual process of sanctification. And here are some quotations from sources I happen to have on hand:<br /><br />“Earth she [Mary] is, because she is from earth; but she is a new earth, since she derives in no way from her ancestors and has not inherited the old leaven. She is… a new dough and has originated a new race.” - St. Nicolas Cabasilas, Hom. In Dorm. 4; PG 19:498, quoted in Meyendorff, Byzantine Theology, 148<br /><br />“The grace of God delivered her [Mary] completely, just as if she had been conceived virginally [sic]… Thence, because she was completely liberated from the ancestral guilt and punishment - a privilege which she is the only one of the human race to have received - her soul is altogether inaccessible to the clouds of [impure] thoughts, and she became, in body and soul, a divine sanctuary.” - Gennadios Scholarios, Oeuvres completes de Georges Scholarios, ed. J. Petit and M. Jugie, II:501, quoted in Meyendorff, Byzantine Theology p. 148Seraphimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00147139664156379333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-38438908696009306442011-09-08T17:03:42.715-07:002011-09-08T17:03:42.715-07:00Seraphim, thank you for this clarification, I foun...Seraphim, thank you for this clarification, I found it very helpful in understanding the differences and commonalities between the two Churches. And yes, a blessed and joyous feast of the Nativity of the Theotokos to all!<br /><br />Fr. Ryan, I don't see it as Mary having to earn her grace, I see it as accepting God's will perfectly. We glorify her as the Immaculate One, all pure and sinless, because she had free will, yet always did God's will. If she was conceived without sin, then it wouldn't have been her choice. The fact that her will was God's will (yet she had the freedom to choose) exalts her even more. Thank you for the post!Alexandra M.G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03904783533174922746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-24132244210805620812011-09-08T15:59:01.766-07:002011-09-08T15:59:01.766-07:00Father, if I might clarify a better-phrased versio...Father, if I might clarify a better-phrased version of the recent Orthodox theolegoumenon formulated in opposition to the West's definition of the Immaculate Conception, it is usually said that the Theotokos was sanctified and perfectly divinized and made free of all sin at the Annunciation when the Incarnation took place, the rationale being that man cannot become God until God has become man. However, she was saintly and pure even before the Annunciation, just not perfected. Her perfection thus was not something she earned (in the Pelagian manner), but a grace given through the Incarnation.<br /><br />To this argument (which was presented to me in private correspondence from an Orthodox priest, Fr. Borislav Kroner), I would respond that one needs the Incarnation to be sanctified and made holy (even imperfectly holy) no less than perfect and free from all sin, and that there is no reason why she could not have been sanctified by the Incarnation even before the Incarnation happened, because God works outside of time. (Adam and Eve, whom both Orthodox and Catholic dogma teaches were in the state of grace or divinization, also could only have been divinized by the future Incarnation, which is why the East is more skeptical of the Thomist argument that Christ would not have become man if the Fall had not happened; my personal view, which strives to preserve both that argument and the Western liturgical formulation of "O felix culpa," is that the Fall happened and any discussion of "what if" is more or less meaningless, since God is outside of time and does not need to wonder about future possibilities.)Seraphimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00147139664156379333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-76694597212916578582011-09-08T15:16:36.861-07:002011-09-08T15:16:36.861-07:00@Seraphim, Thank you for the clarification to the ...@Seraphim, Thank you for the clarification to the effect that the Eastern Catholic Church does venerate St. John! What a joy for me to discover another saint! +<br /><br />@Alexandra M.G.,<br />I am not at all upset ... I am only writing clearly, directly, and concisely. Please do know that this discussion can be very profitable and need not be overly polemical (I will do my best to avoid the polemics as well!).<br /><br />Still, the essence of pelagianism is that we earn grace through our works ... that seems to the the essence also of your earlier quotation ... that Mary had to earn her graces, and therefore could not have been conceived without sin.<br />This is very very wrong, on many levels.<br /><br />Peace to all! +Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-70208227444245661262011-09-08T09:05:34.018-07:002011-09-08T09:05:34.018-07:00Father, forgive me, I've obviously upset you. ...Father, forgive me, I've obviously upset you. I am surprised that you would call Eastern Church heretical and confused. Especially since there has been great effort by the West to make ammends with the Eastern Church. I have a hard time with Catholic doctrine that is introduced so late in time, with lack of clear evidence in the writings of the early Church Fathers. The Orthodox Church does not introduce new doctrine, if it isn't broken, it doesn't require to be fixed. Which is precisely the case with the Immaculate Conception. This doctrine then causes confusion with Catholics on the concept of Her death and whether She died and why she died. You go through great lengths to say why the Catholic usage of the word "death" makes it clearer, yet your article deals with confusion among Catholics as to whether she died or not. This confusion simply doesn't exist in the East. As for your name calling, pelagianism was condemned as heresy in the Council of Carthage in 418AD. St. John of Maximovich is an American Orthodox Saint whose incorrupt relics can be venerated today in the San Francisco Cathedral, "Joy of All Who Sorrow." <br /><br />Here is a short description of pelagianism, couldn't be farther from Orthodox doctrine: Pelagianism views humanity as basically good and morally unaffected by the Fall. It denies the imputation of Adam's sin, original sin, total depravity, and substitutionary atonement. It simultaneously views man as fundamentally good and in possession of libertarian free will. With regards to salvation, it teaches that man has the ability in and of himself (apart from divine aid) to obey God and earn eternal salvation. Pelagianism is overwhelmingly incompatible with the Bible and was historically opposed by Augustine (354-430), Bishop of Hippo, leading to its condemnation as a heresy at Council of Carthage in 418 A.D. These condemnations were summarily ratified at the Council of Ephesus (A.D. 431).<br /><br />I admit I usually don't participate on Catholic blogs! So please forgive me for any offense. My Catholic sister and dear friend forwarded me this link. Her and I have the greatest respect for each other's faith, despite our differences. May God bless us all with peace and understanding.Alexandra M.G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03904783533174922746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-12731828217955616222011-09-08T08:49:57.366-07:002011-09-08T08:49:57.366-07:00Fr. Erlenbush,
All Orthodox saints are on the Eas...Fr. Erlenbush,<br /><br />All Orthodox saints are on the Eastern Catholic calendars and can be publicly venerated during Liturgy; I've even been told that St. Alexis Toth (who led an exodus of several thousand Ruthenian Catholics into Orthodoxy) has his troparia during Liturgy at the Russian Catholic parishes in California since they use the Orthodox Church of America's synodikon, and if so St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco (St. John Maximovitch) would be one of the more prominent saints venerated there. His relics are kept nearby.<br /><br />This does not mean that many saints venerated in Catholic churches did not succumb to anti-Catholic polemics and cheap argumentation in order to trump of a heresy (as St. Jerome predicted they would) in order to preserve some superficial image of Holy Orthodoxy as untainted by Romanism. St. Gregory Palamas (celebrated in all Eastern Catholic churches on the Second Sunday of Great Lent as the continuation of the feast of the Triumph of Holy Orthodoxy, as well as in his own feast in November) and St. Photios the Great engaged in anti-Latin polemics too. This doesn't detract from their authority as saints and theologians; it only means that they must be understood in context (of their polemical shortcomings).<br /><br />Orthodox tradition should be judged according to its teaching throughout the centuries, which was always strongly in favor of the sinlessness and purity of the Panaghia. As my favorite troparion (sung during Orthros/Matins in Great Lent) reads, "To your protection do we fly, O Mary Theotokos; despise then not our cry. From every peril shelter us, for you alone are immaculate - the Mother of our God."Seraphimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00147139664156379333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-17227918986500762052011-09-08T08:40:02.768-07:002011-09-08T08:40:02.768-07:00Alexandra,
The Latin Church too believes that Mar...Alexandra,<br /><br />The Latin Church too believes that Mary was CAPABLE of sin - she had a free will, and, as the New Eve, was placed in a situation (the Annunciation) where she was offered a choice to accept God's will or say no. (It was not a temptation from Satan, however, but a choice presented to her freedom and rationality by the Archangel Gabriel.) So they would agree with you and with St. John Maximovitch about her taking care of her salvation and overcoming all "temptations" (they simply were not temptations that side-stepped her noetic integrity as they do with us; she knew what she was doing and what the choices she was offered with were).<br /><br />Both the Catholic and the Orthodox Churches agree on the utter purity and sinlessness of the Theotokos. I quote St. Silouan the Athonite, as quoted by his disciple Archimandrite Sophrony:<br /><br />“In church I was listening to a reading from the prophet Isaiah, and at the words, ‘Wash you, make you clean,’ I reflected, ‘Maybe the Mother of God sinned at one time or another, if only in thought.’ And, marvelous to relate, in unison with my prayer a voice sounded in my heart, saying clearly, ‘The Mother of God never sinned even in thought.’ Thus did the Holy Spirit bear witness in my heart to her purity.”<br /><br />That's the Roman Catholic dogma in a nutshell.<br /><br />For an Orthodox perspective on the compatibility of Orthodoxy with Rome on this (partisan polemics notwithstanding), Fr. Lev Gillet ("A Monk of the Eastern Church", author of classic books on "The Prayer of Jesus" and "Orthodox Spirituality") wrote an article on it republished at this blog:<br /><br />http://byzantinechesterton.blogspot.com/<br /><br />Fr. Gillet was following the arguments of earlier Orthodox theologians like Polotsky and Amfitreoloff, in turn following the Greek Fathers who argued for the sinlessness of the Theotokos on Christological grounds. (As St. Proclus of Constantinople said, “As He formed her without any stain of her own, so He proceeded from her contracting no stain.”)<br /><br />Have a blessed Nativity of the Theotokos.<br /><br />In peace,<br /><br />SeraphimSeraphimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00147139664156379333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-30623022436564413212011-09-08T08:23:34.401-07:002011-09-08T08:23:34.401-07:00@Alexandra M.G.
John Maximovich is not recognized ...@Alexandra M.G.<br />John Maximovich is not recognized as a Saint in the Catholic Church.<br /><br />I think that quote is a good example of pelagianism ... the idea that God cannot give grace until we do something.<br /><br />In fact, the point about "why didn't He purify all men?" is very very poor theology ... it would mean that neither our Lord nor our Lady could have received any special graces ... excepting insofar as they "earned" these graces ... again, patented pelagianism.<br /><br />Oh dear, the Orthodox theologians are terribly terribly confused ...Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-78845821017066016202011-09-07T21:16:13.070-07:002011-09-07T21:16:13.070-07:00From the aforementioned book, quoting St. John Max...From the aforementioned book, quoting St. John Maximovich: "If the Theotokos (God-bearer in Greek) was preserved from this "original sin", that would make God unmerciful and unjust. If God preserved her, why then does He not purify all men? But then that would have meant saving men before their birth, apart from their will. This teaching would tehn deny all her virtues. After all, if Mary, even in the womb of Anna, when she could not even desire anything good or evil, was preserved by God's grace from every impurity, and then by that grace was preserved from sin even after brith, then in what does her virtue consist? She would have been placed in the state of being unable to sin. The Virgin as a true daughter of Adam and Eve, also inherited death. She was not in a state of never being able to die. Thus St. John of Damascuas writes on the occasion of her Dormition, O pure Virgin, sprung form mortal loins, thine end was conformable to nature. Blessed Archbishop John Maximovich continues to comment that the Virgin was not placed in the state of being unable to sin, but continued to take care for her salvation and overcame all temptations. The righteousness and sanctity of the Virgin Mary was manifested in the fact that she, being "human with passions like us," so loved God and gave herself over to Him, that by her purity she was exalted above all creatures. Mary was to become the Mother of God, the Theotokos, not because she was to give birth to divinity, but that through her the Word became true man, God-man.Alexandra M.G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03904783533174922746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-90825464370911574912011-09-07T21:07:12.076-07:002011-09-07T21:07:12.076-07:00I am reading a beautiful book: "The Life of t...I am reading a beautiful book: "The Life of the Virgin Mary, The Theotokos" from Holy Apostles Convent. It is written within the context of Holy Orthodox Tradition, but I'm sure many Catholics would enjoy the contents, even if there are differences in theology between Catholics and Orthodox. It's an extensive book which draws from Scripture and ancient writings, many from the early Church Fathers such as St. Ignatios of Antioch, St. Justin Martyr, St. Irenaeus of Lyons and St. Hippolytos, as well as other righteous ones up to modern times. It draws from the rich hymnography of the Church and iconography; the hymns and icons narrate and amplify the Gospel and Holy Tradition. I will quote in the next comment what it says about Immaculate Conception.Alexandra M.G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03904783533174922746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-84089144282717122912011-09-07T20:40:07.615-07:002011-09-07T20:40:07.615-07:00@junex,
It seems most likely that she simply gave ...@junex,<br />It seems most likely that she simply gave up her spirit to the Lord. She prayed the Lord to allow her to die in imitation of her Son, and the prayer was granted.Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-87334976802147821872011-09-07T19:05:50.562-07:002011-09-07T19:05:50.562-07:00WHAT IS THE CAUSE OF HER DEATH?WHAT IS THE CAUSE OF HER DEATH?junexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-65943114147658375632011-08-17T16:10:01.254-07:002011-08-17T16:10:01.254-07:00@Seraphim,
Regarding whether or not Mary had orig...@Seraphim, <br />Regarding whether or not Mary had original sin.<br />We simply cannot say that she suffered from original sin, because original sin is the lack of grace (it is being conceived without the state of grace) ... and this would be heresy.<br /><br />To conflate original sin with death is absurd ... it would mean that Christ had original sin ... what is more, it confuses the punishment for sin (i.e. death) with the state itself (i.e. being conceived without grace).<br /><br />I'm sorry, but whether you are East or West, you simply cannot state that Mary was subject to original sin and that this is why she died ... else, we would have to say that Christ too was subject to original sin since he too was able to die.Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-15874375094974624422011-08-17T16:08:20.783-07:002011-08-17T16:08:20.783-07:00Unfortunately in the liturgical reform of 1955 the...Unfortunately in the liturgical reform of 1955 the Assumption lost its very ancient (9th-century) Octave. The Matins lessons all through the octave had some very beautiful readings from the Fathers.Peternoreply@blogger.com