tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post4426704010612833959..comments2024-03-25T17:14:03.066-07:00Comments on The New Theological Movement: Can children commit mortal sins? A reflection on first confessionsFather Ryan Erlenbushhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-4984329431505177472011-08-31T09:36:37.477-07:002011-08-31T09:36:37.477-07:00El Eremita,
Great question! If you don't mind,...El Eremita,<br />Great question! If you don't mind, I'm going to copy it over to the more recent post "Reconsiderations" - http://newtheologicalmovement.blogspot.com/2011/08/fr-ryan-erlenbush-reconsiderations.html - and I will answer it more fully there.<br /><br />Briefly, I will state that it is almost certainly NOT the case that EVERY non-baptized child commits a mortal sin as his first rational act ... I do think (personally) that most do, but almost certainly not all.<br /><br />Regarding the infusion of grace, the point is that there is a "baptism of desire" which tends toward the Sacrament of Baptism (either explicitly or implicitly). The Catholic Tradition has always maintained that it is possible for those who have not been baptized to be forgiven original sin and elevated in sanctifying grace through the baptism of blood/desire.<br />[most theologians agree that those who, through no fault of their own, no nothing at all about the Faith (e.g. little unbaptized children who have just reached reason) can make an implicit act of faith through a desire for God (even though they no nothing at all about the Trinity or the Incarnation).<br /><br />I hope this helps!<br />Peace and blessings to you! +Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-90809262456712666812011-08-31T06:03:33.324-07:002011-08-31T06:03:33.324-07:00Dear Father,
One question: If every unbaptized ch...Dear Father,<br /><br />One question: If <i>every</i> unbaptized child commits a mortal sin upon entering age of reason, can it be said to be a truly a free act? If it is indeed free, then there must be an actual possibility of avoiding it. <br /><br />I also have problems with the opinion that if an unbaptized child turns to God as his first rational act, he will merit the remission of original sin. What is the theological foundation of this opinion? I thought that only Baptism, the desire of it or martyrdom could do this. <br /><br />Thanks in advance for your time and for this excellent blog.El Eremitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17513163574275472565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-32012168970022075652011-04-19T12:37:30.162-07:002011-04-19T12:37:30.162-07:00Ben,
You make very good points. And I would very m...Ben,<br />You make very good points. And I would very much like to write a post about how to make a good confession ... perhaps I will get around to it sometime ... maybe for the feast of St. John Vianney this summer.<br /><br />In the meantime ... the point about confessing venial sins is that we MUST confess AT LEAST ONE sin (and all mortal sins) in order to make a valid confession. Thus, if there are no mortal sins, at least one venial sin must be confessed -- moreover, for validity, we may even confess a sin which has already been forgiven (some specific past sin).<br /><br />Thus, simply saying "Father, I want to be more charitable" doesn't cut it ... it is not a valid confession.<br />On the other hand, "Father, I have been uncharitable in speech" suffices for the confession of a particular venial sin (though it is "general" and not "specific").<br />Finally, if the failure in speech is mortal, we must specify: "Father, I have lied about another under oath and have thereby committed the sin of perjury one time." (this is a "specific" confession of sin, which is necessary for sins which are mortal)<br /><br />I hope that helps! <br />Also, feel free to ask questions on any posts (even if they are older) ... moreover, you may find the "Ask Reginaldus" page to be a good place for more questions! +Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-77179008613020296182011-04-19T12:08:05.031-07:002011-04-19T12:08:05.031-07:00Father, could you say more (maybe in another post)...Father, could you say more (maybe in another post) about what "at least generally" means in terms of the manner in which venial sins ought to be confessed?<br /><br />My understanding is that it's one thing to say that a valid confession requires contrition, and contrition is of sin, and therefore <br />one must have sinned at least venially in order to make a valid confession. But it's another thing entirely to say that one is obliged to confess venial sins (which you have not said, although a hasty reader like myself might initially think that you had).<br /><br />And my further understanding is that there is no obligation whatever to confess venial sins sacramentally. In other words, the sacramental confession of venial sins is a salutary practice that can open up wide avenues of spiritual growth for us -- BUT we must never approach the confession of venial sin with a sense of anxiety or fuss, lest we cut ourselves off by self-absorption from the very grace we seek.<br /><br />In "Pardon and Peace", which I found to be a magnificent practical primer on the basics of approaching this sacrament, Fr. Alfred Wilson writes rather caustically of the practice of going into the confessional with a laundry list of venial sins.<br /><br />More specifically, he calls out (quoting Quadrupani, I believe) an unfortunate habit that many of us fall into when examining our consciences before confession -- namely, we spend far more time restlessly probing our memory for every last venial sin, than we spend making <i>concrete, practical</i> purposes of amendment aimed at rooting out those sins from our daily life. I.e., "I'm going to change my life now, <i>in such-and-such a way</i>, so as to avoid that sin in the future".<br /><br />Whereas in Fr. Wilson's view, a practical purpose of amendment is vastly more important to the effective use of Confession (for spiritual growth; he's not talking about mortal sin here) than exhaustively cataloging our venial sins. IIRC, he thinks that it's precisely this exhaustive-catalog approach that prevents many people from really growing spiritually, not to mention contributing to an unhealthy attitude of one sort or another toward this most wonderful sacrament.<br /><br />But unfortunately many of us learned nothing else as children than that we ought to work up a laundry list. (Perhaps we weren't even taught that, but it just occurred to us somewhat naturally.)<br /><br />At any rate if you wouldn't mind writing a little more about the intersection of confession and venial sin, it might be very helpful for many. And if I've presented any errors above, please correct me.<br /><br />(and after this my purpose is to avoid posting on old threads; just discovered this blog and love it!)Bennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-1110362875753835652011-04-01T19:34:33.543-07:002011-04-01T19:34:33.543-07:00@Kathy,
Thank you for these beautiful words from D...@Kathy,<br />Thank you for these beautiful words from Don Bosco! I am especially inspired by the second point -- regarding the need for the priests to help the children (now 10 years old) review their past confessions which may well have been defective on account of not having confessed all their grave or serious sins...<br /><br />Indeed, the kind and loving confessor, is also the one who gently leads the children to understand sin and confession!<br /><br />Peace. +Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-82831452950206968642011-04-01T18:10:14.953-07:002011-04-01T18:10:14.953-07:00Read the words of Don Bosco:
"If what I have...Read the words of Don Bosco:<br /><br />"If what I have written is read by someone who is destined by divine providence to hear the confessions of the young I would like, among countless other things, humbly and respectfully to suggest the following:<br /><br /> 1. Lovingly receive every class of penitents but especially the young. Help them to open their hearts and insist that they come to confession frequently. This is the most secure means of keeping them away from sin. Make use of every means to see that they put into practice the advice given them to avoid sin in the future. Correct them with kindness; never scold them because if you shout at them today they will not come to confession tomorrow or, if they do, they will not speak of those matters which upset you.<br /> <br />2.When you have gained their confidence, prudently find out whether all their confessions in the past were well made. I say this because famous, experienced authors in both the field of morals and ascetics, and especially a famous author who warrants belief, agree in stating that the first confessions are often null or, at least, defective because of the lack of instruction or the wilful omission of matters for confession. Invite the penitent to ponder the state of his conscience well from when he was seven up until he was ten or twelve. At this age he is already aware of certain serious sins but makes little of them or does not know how to confess them. The confessor whilst he must be most prudent and reserved must not avoid asking questions in the area of the holy virtue of modesty."<br />(quoted from The Life of Michael Magone, found on sdl.sdb.org<br /><br />So, did Don Bosco think children could commit mortal sin? It would seem he certainly did. At the very least, he seemed to believe they ought to confess grave matter even if it might not have the weight of mortal sin due to lack of full consent.Kathynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-4033156542658931652011-04-01T12:08:26.292-07:002011-04-01T12:08:26.292-07:00Thank you Reg. for your comments. I hope they insp...Thank you Reg. for your comments. I hope they inspire more people to pray for the salvation of babes, born and unborn, and their parents.Nicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-1415723208232800682011-04-01T11:22:16.237-07:002011-04-01T11:22:16.237-07:00Adoro,
Thank you for the kind reply! Persevere in...Adoro, <br />Thank you for the kind reply! Persevere in your good work, the Lord will bring us all back! Do not be the least bit discouraged.<br /><br />On small point...a 3 year old really cannot recognize sin in the sense we mean it... Only at the age of discretion (around 7, though occasionally even earlier, perhaps as young as 5) do children really understand personal sin. This is why confession is not done at the age of 3 (the kids cannot be truly sorry, for they cannot yet commit sins)...on the other hand, by 7 nearly every child will have reason and will have committed at least some small venial sin.<br />[I mean this comment as a response also to Nick's at 6:47am]<br /><br />You mention, "Thank God for those parents who are catechized enough to recognize BS when they hear it!" ... while I won't use the term "BS", I will say to you: "Thank God for the work you are doing in your parish to help catechize so that parents and others will come to know the truth through your faithful witness!" :)Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-25017167976018435292011-04-01T11:17:14.179-07:002011-04-01T11:17:14.179-07:00Nick,
Briefly, regarding Limbo: If it exists, it ...Nick, <br />Briefly, regarding Limbo: If it exists, it is part of hell (though there is no punishment). Limbo would be the state of perfect natural happiness, and no supernatural happiness [but the souls there would not know that they are missing out on anything, so they would be very very happy and perfectly fulfilled (naturally)].<br /><br />If Limbo does exists, those in Limbo will remain there for all eternity -- it is part of hell. Thus, Limbo would continue to exist forever in hell and none of the souls there would ever go to heaven.<br />[in this respect, Limbo is very different from Purgatory]<br /><br />I hope this helps clarify the matter. +Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-78221692358590556492011-04-01T11:14:09.527-07:002011-04-01T11:14:09.527-07:00@Nick, I would rather not continue (here) the disc...@Nick, I would rather not continue (here) the discussion of universalism and limbo, as it is not directly related to the topic at hand.<br /><br />My only comment: Universal divine salvific will? Absolutely, as a matter of faith -- God truly does desire the salvation of all people (men and angels).<br /><br />Universalism per say (that all people, men and angels will go to heaven)? Directly contrary to the faith -- a manifest heresy...this cannot be held by any Catholic. Satan and his angels are in hell and will be there for all eternity (there is no room for debate on this point). Deacon Greg is in grave error on this point: Christ Jesus does not pray for Lucifer's salvation -- he does love him, but he does not pray for him, since forgiveness is now impossible.<br /><br />Universalism for all human beings? Theoretically possible, but not at all likely. I will say that people who hold such views (including Fr. Barron) are allowing themselves to be influenced far more by modernism than by the Bible. <br />Christ does not deal in empty categories, and he regularly speaks of those who will be condemned to hell at the end of time.<br /><br />With this, I end any further discussion of the topic of universalism on this post.Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-40540104458779192072011-04-01T11:07:33.742-07:002011-04-01T11:07:33.742-07:00Fr. Levi,
I agree with you that, in the case of a ...Fr. Levi,<br />I agree with you that, in the case of a baptized child, it is highly highly unlikely that they will commit a mortal sin before adolescence.<br /><br />However, in the case of a non-baptized child, I am quite certain that their first rational act will either be a mortal sin or an act of supernatural virtue which brings with it the forgiveness of original sin through an implicit baptism of desire. [for my part, I suppose that most non-baptized children commit a mortal sin as their first rational action...hence the great need for evangelization and infant baptism]<br /><br />Peace. +Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-32323771886961731142011-04-01T05:51:00.639-07:002011-04-01T05:51:00.639-07:00Can a 7-year old sin? Absolutely, if to sin is to ...Can a 7-year old sin? Absolutely, if to sin is to deliberately do that which we know to do wrong. Can they commit mortal sin? Harder to know. Generally not, I would opine, but each is an individual so it would be impossible to be absolute. Should a 7-year old receive this sacrament? Without question, yes! Even if they could not commit mortal sin, whoever said that the confessional is reserved solely to such transgressions - by that standard the sacrament would fall into disuse for most of us (or at least I would hope so!). Venal sins are to be confessed also. I never felt 'cleaner' as a child than when I left the confessional knowing that my sins were forgiven.Paddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10112119118958158131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-70018487421845176292011-03-31T22:07:49.915-07:002011-03-31T22:07:49.915-07:00Here are the quotes on Father Barron and Deacon Gr...Here are the quotes on Father Barron and Deacon Greg, lest I be guilty of detraction.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmsa0sg4Od4" rel="nofollow">Father Barron</a>:<br />"But friend, only God knows whether someone has in fact committed that sin! The church has never (and can never) pronounce on such a matter. I'm not denying the existence of Hell as a real possibility; I'm just saying that we can reasonably hope that Christ will bring all people to salvation. But we don't know. How any of this is idolatry you'll have to explain to me."<br /><br /><a href="http://www.patheos.com/community/deaconsbench/2011/02/20/in-the-e-mail-a-dissenting-view-of-sundays-homily/" rel="nofollow">Deacon Greg</a>:<br />"All I can go on is today’s gospel: 'Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.' Whether or not Jesus would forgive Lucifer — and, frankly, it’s not for us to know how Christ or His Father would ultimately judge anyone — he almost certainly loves him and prays for him, and all those who fall under his influence."<br /><br />And here's the article where I got the quote from the Pope: <a href="http://www.ncregister.com/blog/pope-dont-evangelize-jews-really/" rel="nofollow">POPE: Don't Evangelize Jews! Really?</a>Nicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-20585979257597704572011-03-31T21:55:05.774-07:002011-03-31T21:55:05.774-07:00Pope Benedict XVI, in his new book, made an intere...Pope Benedict XVI, in his new book, made an interesting comment on salvation - as a theologian, that is.<br /><br />"The full number of the Gentiles and all Israel: in this formula we see the universalism of the divine salvific will."<br /><br />Universalism is also found, more or less, amongst some popular Catholic priests. <br /><br />Father Barron believes we cannot know if anyone is in Hell.<br /><br />Deacon Greg believes we should pray for Satan and his demons.<br /><br />This trend of Univeralism disturbs and fascinates me, because I often wonder if the souls in Limbo - if Limbo of the infants does exist - will go to Heaven eventually.<br /><br />It disturbs me because Jesus teaches the two paths, one to life and one to death. It fascinates me because I wonder if, at the end of the world, the Antichrist and his followers will be saved.<br /><br />Granted, my wonders could be wrong in light of Christ's divine teachings. What say you?Nicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-17994314654760326512011-03-31T21:47:36.501-07:002011-03-31T21:47:36.501-07:00"Still...I did what I knew to be wrong. Child..."Still...I did what I knew to be wrong. Children know these things. They recognize venial sins."<br /><br />Be careful about your memory. It can be influenced by your present knowledge of sin.Nicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-57519122490889307182011-03-31T19:44:58.958-07:002011-03-31T19:44:58.958-07:00Oh, my goodness....!
Thank you for this post. I c...Oh, my goodness....!<br /><br />Thank you for this post. I coordinate the Sacraments for the little ones, and when I go to deanery meetings, am often the lone voice arguing FOR obedience to these teachings, against the "conventional 'wisdom'" that reigns in my local area in which the parish does not offer Confession until 4th or 5th grade...yet keeps 1st Holy Communion in 2nd grade. <br /><br />Their argument: children can't meet the objectives of mortal sin AND they are only required to confess mortal sin. <br /><br />WRONG STANDARDS! <br /><br />Children sin...a 3 year old recognizes sin! My gosh, I recall PLANNING certain actions at a very young age, KNOWING full well that what I was doing was very wrong. Mortal..probably not, because I didn't have the intellectual capacity to understand "full knowledge" or the gravity of the act. <br /><br />Still...I did what I knew to be wrong. Children know these things. They recognize venial sins. <br /><br />Ugh...the nightmare of those meetings, the poor formation of adults who are forming children, or at least other adults to form the children!<br /><br />I've had people from those parishes contact me to inquire about the Sacraments, finding that those around us are...confusing, at best. They KNOW the proper order, praise God for that. And they want assurance they aren't crazy, because the "formators" at their home parishes are telling them that they are archaic and things are "updated" now, and children no longer sin until they are teens. Thank God for those parents who are catechized enough to recognize BS when they hear it!<br /><br />Yet..the harm done can't be quantified. <br /><br />Our Archbishop wrote an article a couple years ago but unfortunately it was over the summer, obliging me and others in my diocese to print it out for the benefit of those who aren't paying attention...ever, especially in the summer when they are "on vacation". I only wish he was more direct and had also published the PROPER teaching at the beginning of the school year instead..or even in December-Jan when many 1st Confessions occur.Adorohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02853244433854822731noreply@blogger.com