tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post4777104256453082413..comments2024-03-05T11:44:26.154-08:00Comments on The New Theological Movement: Parish priests need to make the time to offer spiritual directionFather Ryan Erlenbushhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-28831009972821350912013-03-19T15:38:58.148-07:002013-03-19T15:38:58.148-07:00Father, I am a 55 year old mother of three adult c...Father, I am a 55 year old mother of three adult children. My Husband and I have been involved as volunteers for every single fundraiser for the past 25 years, decorating and serving for every feast day and holiday. My husband built our priest's altar, We built the playground, painted the gym and cafeteria a couple of times over a 25 year period. We moved three years ago into a home that we just love near our church after 30 yrs in the other home. We asked our parish priest of all those 25+ yrs. if he would bless our home. He did not seem too interested, but did say he would. The pastoral assistant told us that he was booked for the next three months.He had our number, and we waited for a year and a half. No mention and he did know we were waiting. We are extremely Spiritually hurt. Our priest makes time for new parishioners who request blessings and he has time to socialize with his special friends on the weekends. I have been so spiritually broken over this and am suffering from PTSD , so hurt, insulted and disrespected. Please advise us...FaithfullyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-46384996118942825752012-01-26T16:20:20.414-08:002012-01-26T16:20:20.414-08:00Father,
I do agree, ideally we should have priest...Father,<br /><br />I do agree, ideally we should have priests as spiritual directors but we really need to start doing a better job of training them in that field. Spending time at Clear Creek and at the FSSP and ICRSS parishes taught me more on this point than anything else. <br /><br />As to IPF, yes, I actually fear what its influence will be in the upcoming years. St. Theresa of Avila spoke about the immense setbacks she experienced on behalf of her pious yet wholly ignorant spiritual director. What I saw when I was there was a factory for churning out just such folks. Its too much of the old '60s psychology being called "spirituality". Veneers of piety and stories of the mystics without the solid foundation needed turned out guys that thought they were all sorts of combinations of in the innermost castle and top rungs of the ladder of mystical union after a week silent retreat. Please... <br /><br />Combine that with the fuzzy theology they get back at the seminary (even if it has been toned down from Rahner and Schillebeecx to von Balthasar and Congar) and I see a train wreck. <br /><br />Lord preserve us! and I trust He will on His timeframe.dominic1955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-15754502261474889952012-01-26T14:34:46.543-08:002012-01-26T14:34:46.543-08:00Father, every time I start to forget the many prob...Father, every time I start to forget the many problems we have in the Church as a result of the past forty plus years of neglect, reading some of the comments here always reminds me.<br /><br />And it never, ever ceases to astound me that some actually think that they know better today than the true Catholic experts of the past. A quick look around the Church will show where all the new-fangled nonsense got us.Veronicanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-67646167678163853092012-01-25T12:16:29.563-08:002012-01-25T12:16:29.563-08:00More and more people are seeking spiritual directi...More and more people are seeking spiritual direction in their desire to deepen their relationship w/our Lord and get the help along the way to make it to heaven, but few are those blessed w/a good spiritual director. SD is really a gift, one that some priests have and some don't. We need to pray for more vocations so we can have more priests to minister to us lay people. After reading st francis de sales book it was clear to me that only w/spiritual direction would i advance in my spiritual life.Michellenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-12207531300605692842012-01-25T10:53:40.070-08:002012-01-25T10:53:40.070-08:00@Ignatius,
If your "training courses" em...@Ignatius,<br />If your "training courses" emphasize ignoring the real differences between Catholics and protestants -- especially in terms of morality, prayer, and the life of grace (which is where the differences are most grave) -- then they are NOT in the true Ignatian tradition.<br />The Jesuit spiritual tradition is specifically counter-reformation in character ... as opposed, for example, to the Dominican tradition which came before all the protestant polemics.<br /><br />I cannot see how there can be true spiritual direction with non-Catholics ... if they are not living the sacramental life, then they are not ready for true direction.<br />Certainly, conversation and dialog, but not spiritual direction.<br /><br />My advice to you, father: Set aside the nonsense that these "training courses" have given you, go back to the classic works.<br />Based on what you have said in comments, I could not recommend anyone to go to spiritual direction with you.Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-63080781416510816502012-01-25T10:48:50.180-08:002012-01-25T10:48:50.180-08:00@ That Tampa, Florida lady,
I think that you might...@ That Tampa, Florida lady,<br />I think that you might be overreacting a little bit ... the fact is that many priests were not preaching the truth, especially during the 60s, 70s and 80s. Even today there are still priests who give almost no solid Catholic teaching in their homilies.<br /><br />Thankfully, the situation is getting better ... apparently, from what you say, Florida is well ahead of the rest of the world.<br />Let us thank God for that! +Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-58732345260311381752012-01-25T09:01:47.452-08:002012-01-25T09:01:47.452-08:00Fr. Erlenbush,
In speaking of "confession&quo...Fr. Erlenbush,<br />In speaking of "confession" in a broad sense I hoped to indicate that I was not speaking of sacramental confession. None of the properly (and rigorously) trained spiritual directors I am familiar with would confuse the two. There is no danger at all. People in direction might indeed be encouraged to return to the practice of confession in a renewed and more meaningful way. I have often found this to be so.<br />Training courses that come out of an Ignatian background and draw on the Spiritual Exercises would always recognise the value of other ways and never impose any one way. The emphasis is on open mutual listening to God. There is no need to be troubled here either. <br />If you were prepared to accept that the working of God is not confined to the Catholic sacramental system, you might be surprised to discover that an Anglican laywoman might well be close to God and able to help others - even perhaps yourself - draw closer to him as well.Ignatiusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-41725477620102449382012-01-25T08:10:28.303-08:002012-01-25T08:10:28.303-08:00Hey Anonymous: I do not find that so here in Flor...Hey Anonymous: I do not find that so here in Florida. When they were relating that Cat stuff you weren't listening or were half awake. Or most people who are about late 20s and early to mid 30 s were all out partying and raving. <br /><br />The church has been preaching the gospel, the only thing is this: many were not listening and because of this incompetence and lack of listening they blame the church. <br /><br />Time to duck people we 40 somethings are on to your little hide and seek game. We were the ones who babysat you fools.That Tampa, Florida ladyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17342563360098373065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-49728719530360944882012-01-25T05:33:18.585-08:002012-01-25T05:33:18.585-08:00First time I've seen your blog Father and glad...First time I've seen your blog Father and glad to see this post. My two cents is, I wish more priests would more often start by at least relating more to the catechism in their homilies. Much of the homilies I have ever heard in my 40+ years are all really very similar, and really could be summed in a Norman Vincent Peale booklet. But even an occasional sitation from the catechsim would go a long way towards counseling the flock.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-49513156852134598442012-01-25T03:35:58.111-08:002012-01-25T03:35:58.111-08:00Working with an accredited spiritual director has ...Working with an accredited spiritual director has been a tremendous part of my priesthood. Any priest can call himself a spiritual director, but few have the training. Unless things have radically changed in the seminary lately -- and with the episcopal emphasis on the vital importance of theology I doubt that very much -- seminary study only brushes upon the great classics of the spiritual life and spiritual direction. Simply attending a seminary doesn't make a priest a spiritual director any more than simply attending church makes one a true Christian. <br /><br />Father Paul Wharton http://heartsonfire33.wordpress.compjw919https://www.blogger.com/profile/06102237563849912679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-37884896566864636962012-01-24T20:30:16.948-08:002012-01-24T20:30:16.948-08:00@Dominic,
I concur. Most priests are not able to s...@Dominic,<br />I concur. Most priests are not able to serve effectively as spiritual directors.<br />And IPF most certainly does not prepare them according to the Catholic tradition of spiritual theology.<br /><br />Yet, I am convinced, that holy lay people will merit holy priests -- the good Lord will not abandon us! +Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-74406245238969621742012-01-24T19:11:09.706-08:002012-01-24T19:11:09.706-08:00Father Erhlenbush,
Thank you for your commentary ...Father Erhlenbush,<br /><br />Thank you for your commentary in this field, especially for your reliance on the Doctors and auctores probati. There is no safer path in moral theology (or any theological field for that matter) than to go to the Magisterium, the Scriptures the Fathers and Doctors and the approved authors. Also, the above (especially the Magisterium and Scripture) are best taken from the perspective of our saintly and learned Fathers and Doctors as well as by those approved authors which have a legitimate weight behind their writing (i.e. Garrigou-Lagrange). <br /><br />Personally, I find few things more dangerous in the life of the Church than modern authors, well meaning though they may be, departing from this well trod path in their effort to reinvent the wheel. While it is especially evident in dogmatic theology, it is certainly to be seen in the spiritual theology field as well. Appeals to "modern conditions" only go so far. While some prudential or practical advice might no longer be applicable, it seems to me that when this occurs it is rather obvious and the appropriate time conditioned response can be substituted. Any criticism of the Doctors' et al. "outmoded" or "obsolete" theology can pretty much be dismissed as Modernistic and smacking of the nouvelle theologie.<br /><br />Also, while I agree in principle with your comments on who should be spiritual directors, I take issue with it in that even priests are not necessarily equipped for it any more. I was in the seminary for a spell, and unless you had an a good director yourself, did plenty of your own reading on the side and ignored all the various departures from traditional spirituality you encounter (like at a certain summer program in a midwestern state where most seminarians will go to at some point in their studies...) you will be very ill prepared.dominic1955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-43386311630024605672012-01-24T17:26:29.471-08:002012-01-24T17:26:29.471-08:00Dear Father,
Thank you for this excellent remind...Dear Father, <br /><br />Thank you for this excellent reminder! As a sinner who am, I hope, repentant, and an ardent Scrupolitan, Father, I have a sense of blessed security with your virtuous, fatherly guidance. <br /><br />As a parishioner and directee, I promise to study, pray and live my life as proposed by the Church in the Bible, the Catechism, the Fathers, the Papal and Council documents, etc, and according to the guidance of my confessor and spiritual director, through the power of the Holy Spirit. In sum, to pray and work for the glory of God in my daily life. <br /><br />God bless you and your confreres for taking the time out of your busy schedule to offer this blog for our information and guidance, Father.Michelangelonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-81870802835897881212012-01-24T16:43:45.456-08:002012-01-24T16:43:45.456-08:00@Laura,
Sts. Peter and Paul (as well as John) did ...@Laura,<br />Sts. Peter and Paul (as well as John) did serve as directors for individual souls ... please look again at the quote in the article from St. Francis de Sales.<br /><br />Regarding who is capable of telling priests what to do ... it is not me who says it, but de Sales and the other Church Doctors.Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-26158448188119219332012-01-24T15:10:48.283-08:002012-01-24T15:10:48.283-08:00Father,
Paul planted churches and went on to the...Father, <br /><br />Paul planted churches and went on to the next, appointing leaders there. He advised the Christians there in bulk, not individually, and not all that frequently, as history is able to tell us.<br /><br />It would be disrespectful and presumptuous of me to demand our priest do more of anything than he already does. We are grateful to have our holy priests and do what we can to help them. <br /><br />I'm surprised that you would be able to know how busy our priests here are, or that they are not already giving time from their poverty rather than their wealth of hours (Lk 21:1-4). Their own spiritual directors, who know them, would seem to be more informed to make the call.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-31291430221821836522012-01-24T12:43:58.779-08:002012-01-24T12:43:58.779-08:00Father Christensen,
I agree with you that few peop...Father Christensen,<br />I agree with you that few people will either be inclined or ready for individual spiritual direction ... indeed, as you say, if we could get confession to be more popular, that would be a great thing!<br /><br />Could Francis de Sales be wrong on this issue? Perhaps. But since it is not just de Sales, but also Alphonsus, and Teresa, and Ignatius, and so many others ... no, I do not think that they could all be wrong.<br />Priests need to make time for direction ... and they need to make time to study well so that they can be good confessors and directors.<br /><br />Regarding my reliance on the Doctors of the Church ... in matters of prudence and of the intricacies of the spiritual life, questions are so difficult and the matter so important for salvation that I cannot even imagine relying on anyone more than (or equal with) the Doctors and Fathers of the Church.<br />You will notice, however, that I recommended Fr. Garrigou-Lagrange ... he is not a Church Doctor, but I still trust him as a good guide -- since, he constantly recommends the Doctors.<br />You will also notice that I cited Pope Benedict XVI at the beginning of the article.<br />It is simply not true to insinuate that I refuse to look to anyone other than the Doctors of the Church. (goodness, I even recommended Lorenzo Scupoli)<br /><br />Further, if you ever read (or have read) much of St. Alphonsus, you will notice that most of his books are citations from the Fathers and Doctors of the Church -- I should think that, if St. Alphonsus insisted on following the Doctors of the Church, I would be very prideful to take a different path.Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-55210005227492500842012-01-24T12:26:33.026-08:002012-01-24T12:26:33.026-08:00As a parish priest I can testify that there are fe...As a parish priest I can testify that there are few people in parishes who are ready or committed enough to a life of prayer to receive spiritual direction. I think the first step is for people to confession to the same priest regularly (once a month or more). I find that for the average parishioner this is more than enough spiritual direction for their state in life.<br /><br />Is it possible that St. Francis DeSales was wrong on this particular topic, or was not thinking of our modern situation?<br /><br />Also, on a different note, why do you always think everything has to be backed up by the Doctors of the Church? You seem to rely excessively upon them. They are not infallible, and have make theological mistakes. We also must take into account that they were writing in times very different from ours. I'm not saying they are not valuable, for they surely are, but merely that we should be open to other sources as well.Father Christensenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00294866489023253803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-86719533939401470442012-01-24T12:24:05.802-08:002012-01-24T12:24:05.802-08:00Father,
Thank you for this. I'm very blessed ...Father,<br /><br />Thank you for this. I'm very blessed to have found a good spiritual director several years ago. <br /><br />I shall pass this on to several of my friends, both priests and laymen.Flambeauxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00133131881423202010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-41405069034993242752012-01-24T11:51:59.761-08:002012-01-24T11:51:59.761-08:00Laura K (NC),
Sts. Peter and Paul had the whole wo...Laura K (NC),<br />Sts. Peter and Paul had the whole world to convert ... and they still found time to offer individual spiritual direction.<br /><br />The fact is that not all 1500 families will be looking for direction - nor would all of them benefit from direction at every point in their lives.<br /><br />You said: "Our priests *are* too busy except in blessed and rare exceptions." <br />Please give a citation from a Doctor of the Church to back that up.<br />St. Francis de Sales (as well as St. Alphonsus Liguori) says just the opposite. <br /><br />Priest not only need to make time for direction, they also need to make time to study the classical works of the Catholic tradition. 5 hours a day would not be too much to ask (between study and direction and confession).<br /><br />Priests are not too busy ... it is their duty to offer spiritual direction ... indeed, their salvation will often depend upon taking time for study and for offering direction.Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-37215790087396385412012-01-24T11:46:30.448-08:002012-01-24T11:46:30.448-08:00@Ignatius,
You wrote: "Spiritual direction is...@Ignatius,<br />You wrote: "Spiritual direction is an excellent contemporary way of helping people to make a 'confession' (in a broad sense) ... when they have given up the practice of sacramental confession."<br /><br />That single line is an excellent proof that these "training programs" (which you claim to prepare lay persons to be good directors, but are not even under the direction of the pastors of the Church) are very inadequate.<br /><br />If you are giving direction to people who are not going to sacramental confession, and if you are offering your directive "services" as another option apart from sacramental confession, then you are putting both yourself and them in grave danger.<br /><br />Further, the fact that you claim the spiritual direction programs to be helpful when they are only (perhaps moderately) familiar with one particular spiritual tradition (that of St. Ignatius) is very troubling.Father Ryan Erlenbushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07557817305024750902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-29009177632323195272012-01-24T11:13:09.804-08:002012-01-24T11:13:09.804-08:00The closest parish to us has 1 elderly priest with...The closest parish to us has 1 elderly priest with health issues, 1500 families, and no deacons (yet). Some parishes don't have priests at all. If that elderly priest sees just one person per family per year, he'd be spending his time on 5 parishoners per day excluding Sundays. Even if he can carve an extra 5 hours per day outside of homily prep, meetings, RCIA inquiries, marriages, funerals, baptisms, and hospital/anointing visits, is an hour per year of spiritual direction enough for someone? And what if someone else in the family wants to talk to Father, too?<br /><br />Spiritual direction is a charism that I'm not sure is reserved for priests. I have had some priests who were not gifted, either. A cadre of orthodox sisters and wise older deacons would at least be able to direct needy parishoners to the right spiritual reads. Lumen Gentium has beautiful language for the responsibility of all the people of God. While we're praying for vocations, laymen can lead Bible studies, Christian book clubs, serve as Christian counselors, theologians, and have people over for tea -- within the parameters of Catholic orthodoxy. Abusus non tollit usum.<br /><br />Our priests *are* too busy except in blessed and rare exceptions. I'm grateful for the internet priests and deacons who post their thoughts. The internet might be an impersonal medium, but it's another efficient way to get spiritual direction from a priest who does have the time and the gifts of spiritual direction.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5578980753063154388.post-48778511299549918972012-01-24T08:00:35.219-08:002012-01-24T08:00:35.219-08:00Does it not depend on what you mean by spiritual d...Does it not depend on what you mean by spiritual direction? As a priest and director myself with an extensive clientele, I see the role not as direction in the sense of telling people what to do or what they should believe, but on helping them to see where God is working in their lives, what he may be saying to them, how they can grow in knowledge of God. It need not, more often than not does not address particular issues of discernment, but tends to be mostly concerned with people's ongoing life of faith. It is not a specifically priestly (ordained) ministry at all, and there are far more skilled lay directors than ordained. In London, where I live, there are two well-established courses of training for directors, based on the Ignatian tradition and carried on to high professional standards. (Seminary training may be longer, but is hardly comparable). These courses, as it happens, are not run by the Catholic Church, but do have Catholic tutors and students. Where the focus is primarily on God, rather than being this or that sort of Christian, denominational differences tend to fade into the background. Responsible directors will usually have regular supervision as well as directors of their own and tend to be the sort of people who take part in regular in-service training. <br />I do not think that everybody needs or would benefit from spiritual direction, but those who use it always seem to value it highly. Those who try it and give up quickly are usually people who want quick definite answers in areas of life and faith where such things are not available. Finally, my experience is that spiritual direction is an excellent contemporary way of helping people to make a 'confession' (in a broad sense) and know God's love for them when they have given up the practice of sacramental confession because it had become too much of a sterile routine and the Church had not done much to help them use it in a more mature, truthful way.Ignatiusnoreply@blogger.com